Template:Did you know nominations/Figure humaine

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:07, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Figure humaine

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• ... that the cantata Figure humaine (Human Figure), FP 120, which Francis Poulenc wrote on texts by Paul Éluard for double mixed choir in 1943 in occupied France, premiered by the BBC? Source: book

• Reviewed: From the Soil
• Comment: would love to include "celebrating liberty" and the 12 unaccompanied voices, but it's already long

Created by LouisAlain (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:52, 17 January 2017 (UTC).

• The sentence reads like a run-on sentence to me, and it's hard to relate "premiered by the BBC?" back to "the cantata Figure humaine"...maybe "was premiered by the BBC would be better, but I think you should cut down on the hook, perhaps substantially. Whether readers need to know as part of the hook that it was made for "double mixed choir" or the history of its authorship is dubious. Also..."source: book", what book?? I think "Source: book" is not allowed. As per Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Reviewing_guide, "The hook fact(s) must be stated in the article, and must be immediately followed by an inline citation to a reliable source." Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:54, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

All things in the hook are unusual, especially the mixed choir without orchestra. If we mention BBC in the beginning, the reason - occupied France, is too far away, imho. - Book: I am only the nominator and can't read the referenced book, so can't quote from there. ---Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:03, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Reading again, I'm ready for changes:

ALT1: ... that the cantata Figure humaine, which Francis Poulenc wrote on texts by Paul Éluard for twelve voice parts in 1943 in occupied France, premiered by the BBC? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:09, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

The word/syntax choice still sounds stilted and unnatural to me. I propose:

ALT2: ... that Francis Poulenc's Liberty inspired French language cantata Figure humaine, intended for a twelve voice choir and written in 1943 during the Nazi occupation of France, was first premiered in English by the BBC?

Psiĥedelisto (talk) 11:38, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't you complain about wordiness? "French language" for a title that looks French? Please no. Whose poem? Which title? Why too words ("intended" and "written") when composers write for voices (or orchestra)? I know hooks get more clicks when Nazi is mentioned but do we need that long phrase instead of "occupied France" (which could be linked, only I try to avoid extra links in hooks)? Why mention "in English" if we have no room for musical aspects? "premiered" means "first". - The article on the poem is not substantial enough to be linked to from the Main page. Can someone expand? LouisAlain? If no, no link, if yes, it could have it's own DYK. My try, assuming an expansion so we can do justice to the author in another hook:

ALT3: ... that Francis Poulenc placed an ode to liberty at the end of his Figure humaine, a cantata for a twelve-part choir, composed in occupied France and therefore premiered by the BBC? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used (but they are not available in any form online). I did not complain so much about wordiness as about incorrect grammar making the original hook and ALT1 difficult to read, however we are both happy with ALT3. The approved hook is ALT3. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 23:40, 19 January 2017 (UTC)