The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:02, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
... that Anne C. Morel was the first woman to become a full professor of mathematics at the University of Washington? Source: Feferman and Feferman 2004, p. 200: "She held positions at UC Davis, spent a research year at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, and ended up as the first female full professor at the University of Washington". In context, this quote must mean only that she was the first professor of mathematics, as e.g. Erna Gunther became full professor of anthropology in 1941.
Overall: Hook verified via Google Books. feminist (talk) 05:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
These "first woman" hooks tell us nothing about the subject. We would never say the same thing about a man. Though Morel did very complicated research, perhaps you could mention something in this format: "... that Anne C. Morel, the first woman full professor of mathematics at the University of Washington, did this ..." I also saw this in the article:
We would never say the same thing about a man because it's not surprising for a mathematics professor at that time to have been a man. In contrast, it was so unexpected for such a person to be female that, a couple years after Morel (a logician) died, the local newspaper ran an oblivious op-ed lamenting the nonexistence of women in logic (see the Koblitz source in the article). I deliberately avoided hooks about Tarski, to avoid scandal-mongering for the DYK hook, and to avoid the sexist implication that the only thing that could be interesting or hooky about a woman is her body. (On the other hand I'm happy enough for more people to find out about this problematic side to Tarski.) —David Eppstein (talk) 00:28, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
No problem. But please don't just say "X was the first woman". Any hook can be improved with better wording, such as explaining why this is a big deal. Yoninah (talk) 00:45, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
For some first woman hooks, it can make it more interesting to add some other achievement - but the reason we don't say "the first man to ...." is that the first man was usually the first person, full stop. We do sometimes have hooks about men being the first to do something, or the first to have a certain position - meaning they were the first person. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:28, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
ALT2: ... that Anne C. Morel discovered that different countableordinal numbers could have equal squares? (Or do I need to explain why it is surprising that squaring two different numbers, both positive and one larger than the other, can lead to equal results?) —David Eppstein (talk) 01:28, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
I prefer ALT2. Being the first woman to attain a prestigious position in a male-dominated field is a significant career accomplishment, but I agree it's better to emphasise her scientific work (see WP:FIRSTWOMAN). We definitely should not ignore her mathematics entirely and focus on a gossipy episode from her personal life (ALT1)! – Joe (talk) 06:51, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Nice, Ipigott. ALT3 is good. Pinging original reviewer feminist for another review. Yoninah (talk) 10:54, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm content with the original hook (being the first of a historically marginalized group to do a thing is significant) or with ALT3. XOR'easter (talk) 12:44, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
for ALT3. My preference is for the original hook, because (as David Eppstein points out) it's a significant achievement and gets the point across, though ALT3 is fine as well. I'm not sure if readers uninterested in math would find "countable ordinal numbers" hooky. DYK hooks are meant to be short, and if a "first woman" hook is stronger than other hooks in an article, I don't see why they shouldn't be used. Incidentally, regarding the argument that we would never write that someone is the "first man to do something", we probably should if it serves to highlight men's achievements in fields traditionally considered feminine. feminist (talk) 14:22, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Hook verified via Google Books. feminist (talk) 05:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
These "first woman" hooks tell us nothing about the subject. We would never say the same thing about a man. Though Morel did very complicated research, perhaps you could mention something in this format: "... that Anne C. Morel, the first woman full professor of mathematics at the University of Washington, did this ..." I also saw this in the article:
for ALT3. My preference is for the original hook, because (as David Eppstein points out) it's a significant achievement and gets the point across, though ALT3 is fine as well. I'm not sure if readers uninterested in math would find "countable ordinal numbers" hooky. DYK hooks are meant to be short, and if a "first woman" hook is stronger than other hooks in an article, I don't see why they shouldn't be used. Incidentally, regarding the argument that we would never write that someone is the "first man to do something", we probably should if it serves to highlight men's achievements in fields traditionally considered feminine. feminist (talk) 14:22, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
