Talk:Windows (disambiguation)

Primary topic?

Since, we few, we happy (non-nerdy) few, who believe that people might look up "windows" in an encyclopaedia looking for the article on...guess what...windows, rather than on Microsoft Windows, seem to have been outnumbered, should Microsoft Windows not be made the primary topic on this disambiguation page? Discuss.

Although it goes against common practice (and therefore might be unexpected for readers), I'm inclined to say no, not on its own at least. Perhaps we actually want to surprise the reader in this odd disambiguation situation. We certainly want Window to be prominent. Of course, the guidelines would have us merge this page into Window (disambiguation), but I think that would, in this special case, make for too unwieldy a disambiguation page.

Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 02:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

IDK what you are trying to say. You think/suggest/propose that MS Windows should be the primary topic of this disambiguation page? Or just the opposite? Or that (building) windows should (not) be primary?

no to: "should Microsoft Windows not be made the primary topic on this disambiguation page" which would imply yes, it should be the primary topic of this page. Or you intend yes, it should not? ... or you mean (building) window should be the primary?

What is the common practice?

In what way do you suggest to surprise the reader?

In what way is this page odd?

Merge what page into the windows disambiguation page?

What would make this page too unwieldy?

I'm replying to your comment since I am interesting in the topic of your comment even though I don't understand what your message. I'll post a separate topic with my thoughts.

[BTW you seem nerdy. I think that one thing that qualifies someone as a nerd: someone who edits wikipiedia pages. ... I too am nerdy ... proud of it ... own it :)] Stevebroshar (talk) 12:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 31 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 22:49, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

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Windows (disambiguation) → Windows – No clear primary topic over Window and Window (computing) and the other entries on the DAB page. both the building part and computing meaning are frequently referred to in the plural form and although it might be more common to search for things in the singular form, WP could easily title things in the plural form for example Crickets as pets, Lists of books and {{Closed stations Norfolk}}. We could have an article at List of windows where we use the plural form in the article space. Where WP uses the plural form the building part takes precedence, both Category:Windows and Commons:Category:Windows are about the building part, not the OS. Word doesn't redirect to Microsoft Word but is instead about the generic meaning and Excel is a DAB page. Similarly Apple in the singular is about the fruit not the company per the long-term significance even though the company's most common name is simply "Apple" while the OS's is Microsoft Windows. Doors redirects to Door not The Doors. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose, not a single piece of evidence presented, just presumptions, speculations and a bunch of other stuff. And paraphrasing what Commons people say when you use Wikipedia guidelines there, "this is [Wikipedia] not [Commons]. Whatever they do with their website doesn't dictate us". © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 18:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

  The plurals are used here namely at Category:Windows. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:05, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Per WP:PLURALPT, which this is a clear example of._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as one of the classic examples of WP:PLURALPT, and continue to entirely disagree with Crouch, Swale's proposed framework for this. Nobody contests that the plural form of "windows" is used to refer to multiple openings to the outside, but that's entirely irrelevant. Article titling is about how Wikipedia readers will look this topic up, and almost nobody interested in the glass pane is going to check the plural first. SnowFire (talk) 16:39, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose Nom presents several arguments, but they're mostly based on flawed analogies:
  • The Doors are known as the Doors. They're never referred to as just "Doors", so there's a much weaker case for doing a primary redirect (compared to Microsoft Windows which is very commonly referred to as just "Windows").
  • "Apple" is not plural - the plural-singular distinction is the whole reason Windows points where it does. Same story with the Word and Excel examples. I don't understand what principle these examples are meant to demonstrate.
  • re Category:Windows, why do you think this is inconsistent with Windows being a primary redirect to Microsoft Windows? What's the alternative? Make Category:Windows a WP:CATRED to Category:Microsoft Windows and rename Category:Windows to Category:Windows (architecture)? I don't think there's an easy 1:1 correspondence between how titles and redirects are set up in articles and in categories. The idea of a "primary topic" based on the expectations of searchers seems less important for categories, as the searching-by-name use case is much less important.
  • Lists of books: list articles are one of the enumerated exceptions in WP:NCPLURAL
  • Crickets as pets is arguably best analysed as a singular noun phrase equivalent to "The phenomenon of crickets as pets" or "The keeping of crickets as pets". Similar to Dogs in Mesoamerican folklore and myth, Ghosts in Chinese culture, Swords in courts-martial etc. Anyways, this only applies to a niche of multi-word titles following certain patterns. I don't think the existence of these titles will lead readers to expect for our article on the architectural feature to be at Windows. The fact remains that most titles are singular, and readers are likely attuned to this fact from their experience with Wikipedia, or any other encyclopedia.
  • We could have an article at List of windows Yes, we could. And?

Based on the pageview stats, the redirect is sending readers to where they want to go most of the time, unless you believe an extraordinarily high percentage of readers seeking information about the architectural feature are searching in the plural. The Windows redirect gets about as many daily pageviews as the Window article itself. Colin M (talk) 04:38, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Category:Windows is used becuase it shows that where WP uses the plurals for nouns not only is the OS not primary but the building part is! Maybe Category:Windows should become a DAB though like Category:Plymouth. If WP used the plural for objects you can be fairly sure the the building part would be at Windows and Apple wouldn't be about the fruit. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per Tbhotch and others. This was previously discussed at FRD in December. Calidum 13:57, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

  I would have participated in the RFD had I known about it then but a new nomination after nearly 9 months by an uninvolved user is sufficient per WP:RENOM. Crouch, Swale (talk)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

MS Windows is the primary meaning?

Recently, I moved the Microsoft (MS) Windows link from the top of this page into the list of things that this page disambiguates ... and then someone reverted that change ... putting MS windows at the top; above the list.

I didn't know about the primary link concept at that time. I have just read the WP info on this concept and style. I get the gist of it.

I'll start with: as with all rules, there is the letter of there is the intent. Maybe the letter implies that the primary reference for this disambiguation page should be MS windows. ... but IMHO I think it's silly to think that MS Windows is the primary meaning of the word "Windows". That it is computer-centric thinking considering all the non-computer links including films and music! It's Microsoft-centric considering the non-Microsoft links.

I think the move discussion from 2019 is about what what I'm talking about although it's hard to tell. I think the use of jargon makes it hard to understand both the proposal and folks' arguments. I wish people would use plain wording. Also, that move discussion seems to focus on singular vs. plural which I see as less than interesting. Again, note that there are films and songs named "windows". The plural form clearly deserves a page.

In summary, we all agree that "Windows" does refer to MS Windows. And, in the some contents (such as PC desktop computing) it primarily means MS windows. But, in other contexts it does not primarily mean MS Windows. Therefore, IMO MS Windows is not the overall primary meaning and therefore should not have the special position at the top of this disambiguation page. Its link should live with all the other listed links.

I'm not going to just move it back to the list since surely someone will move it back to the top. IDK how to get this change implemented without first building consensus, and how does one build that on WP? Stevebroshar (talk) 12:56, 29 February 2024 (UTC)