Talk:Wilhelm Souchon

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wilhelm Souchon article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Military history: Biography / Maritime / European / German / Ottoman / World War I

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Maritime warfare task force
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	Ottoman military history task force
	World War I task force

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former countries: Ottoman Empire

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Ottoman Empire (assessed as Mid-importance).

Admiral in Photo is not Souchon[edit]

1. Souchon returned to Germany in September 1917, and so he cannot have been photographed on the Goeben in October 1917. 2. Souchan had been promoted to Vice Admiral in 1915, but the Photo shows a Rear Admiral. 3. Souchon had dark hair and wore a moustache. Summary: the photo does not show Souchon, but his successor in Turkey on the occasion of Field Marshall Liman von Sanders' official welcoming visit on board the new admiral's flagship. (P.S. The same photo recently appeared in the German Wiki and is, of course, equally wrong there.) --Cosal (talk) 03:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comparing the photo in question (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Otto_Liman_Von_Sanders_with_daughter_and_Wilhelm_Souchon.jpg) with other photos (photo search in a current browser), it is easy to see that it is indeed Souchon (nose, chin, mouth, ears ...). He apparently only sported a beard in his younger years. But it is also true that he is depicted as a rear admiral. My guess: The photo was taken in 1915, when Souchon was still a rear admiral. By then Liman was already in Turkey. Nor does Souchon wear the Pour le Mérite, which he received in 1916.--Kuhl-k (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources from the 1930s[edit]

I want to delete the text regarding the Kiel mutiny and replace it by a new one. The former text was based on literature from the 1930s. Especially the book written by Erich Czech-Jochberg: Die Politiker der Republik (1933) cannot be seen as a genuine scientific source. He doesn't use any verifiable source in his book but praises Hitler as the saviour of Germany. There is scientifically sound relatively new literature available (Dirk Dähnhardt: Revolution in Kiel, 1978), which is based on research in the German military archive (espaecially pages 67, 74, 82 ff.). Czech-Jochberg joins the ideologically motivated critics, who assumed Souchon could have quelled the uprising by more energetic measures. This is meant primarily to distract from the conduct of the military and naval authorities. Already Tirpitz' concept was based on shaky assumptions, and a critical discussion was inhibited (see Werner Rahn: Deutsche Marinen im Wandel (German navies in transition)). The treatment of the sailors in the big ships was outrageous. After the mutinies in Wilhelmshaven, Souchon was surprised by the deployment of the III. Squadron to Kiel. Kiel was a tinderbox in which it had come repeatedly to strikes and labor unrest. The spies of the Navy reported a late October planned major strike for peace (Federal Archives). That the navy command sent the potential and actual mutineers to this harbour was a big mistake or worse. Souchon had had in some instances the possibility to act more decisively (especially if his staff the backbone to admit in time the seriousness of the situation). But the dice had fallen with the unification of the workers and sailors. Souchon deserves the credit for having embarked on negotiations. --Kuhl-k (talk) 10:34, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

prut[edit]

please check if the Prut was a minesweeper or a minelayer. pietro151.29.189.70 (talk) 08:08, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]