Talk:Wildwood Flower

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"Pale Amaranthus"[edit]

According to Hubert G. Shearin and Josiah H. Combs - 1911 A Syllabus Of Kentucky Folk-Songs, there is a kentucky folk song from c. 1800[failed verification] called "The Pale Amaranthus", and the poem "I'll Twine 'Mid The Ringlets" is inspired by this folk song.[failed verification] Eyes of bright blue would also seem to be a corruption - the original song says "hyssop so blue" -- hyssop is deeply significant: it is specifically used in bible in ritual purification during sacrificial acts (Exodus 12:22; Leviticus 14:4,6,4:9; Numbers 19:6,18; 1 Kings 4:33; Psalms 51:7; John 19:29; Hebrews 9:19). In John, the hyssop is dipped in wine and placed to Jesus' mouth (on the cross?).

The above post (left by IP 216.116.87.110) about Shearin and Combs contains incorrect information. The 1911 syllabus of Kentucky folksongs by Shearin and Combs contains only the title of the song (Pale Amaranthus) and a brief, one line synopsis. There is absolutely nothing in that reference that indicates either the age of the song (let alone that it was circa 1800) or that it had anything to do with (let alone that it inspired) Twine Mid the Ringlets. It's possible (and this is just my own speculation) that Shearin and Combs heard a rendition of Twine Mid the Ringlets/Wildwood Flower and recorded it as Pale Amaranthus which may have just been what the singer called it. Unfortunately, I am informed by an well-respected musicologist in Tennessee academia that the original texts of Shearin and Combs containing the context of the songs were lost, so we can't know for sure whether it was the same song. Additionally the anonymous poster (IP 207.55.102.131) who edited the above with the Biblical information gives no support or citation for his assertion that "the original song says hyssop so blue." - Embram (talk) 01:00, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Amaleder"[edit]

Well, let's face it, either "amaleder" or "and the leader" make no real sense: either is a mangling via the folk process. But "and the leader" has a citation [1]. If you have a citation for the "amaleder", we should mention that, too. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True. Your citation is authoritative so I can't touch it, even if it's wrong! Certainly though, some predecessor of the Carters sang "amaleder" and someone misheard it, hence their propagation of that error. Which is not to say that "amaleder" is a real plant either. I don't even know how to spell the damned thing! (The reissue of Joan's first album doesn't have a lyric book, does it?) I remain of the opinion (not expressed in my edits) that "Aronatus and eyes of bright blue", despite appearing in the earliest published version of the tune, is itself a folk-process corruption of "amaryllis and violets so blue", though DeMent's "hyssop" is clever, because it's blue too. 16:46, 11 January 2006 (UTC)Maggie

It is always tricky documenting the folk process, because (1) all we get as solid documentation are the points along the line where things get written down and (2) every time something gets written down, at least if it gets published, it is liable to hamper continuation of the process. If "amaleder" can be shown to be a real plant, or if we could even find that written down somewhere mildly authoritative and related to the Carter Family, I'd be much more inclined to give it deference. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:54, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an addition for you

I am pretty certain that what is being referred to is the amenita muscaria (sp?), a whitish mushroom. that is, the paleness was a virtue in a womans skin, back then.

So it should be...Pale amenita, and ...etc...

I suspect the carter fam heard something like that being sung, when they learned the song, and mtn folks would pronounce AMENITA, as "ameniter" as they often attach an R to the ends of words...the carter fam, to make sense of it, made into the nonsense phrase "and the leader" ...which makes no sense. They clearly got other phrases wrong as well..

What is funny is the Carter fam version being the authoritative one ... LOL... Steve Knutson, Corbett, Oregon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.31.35 (talk) 21:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there is always amanita, a poisonous mushroom, and a source of the hallucinogenic, Bufotenin! I'll try to find a reference for eragrostis, a low-lying plant that has seeds that canj get stuck in your clothing. Pustelnik (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another viewpoint from an anonymous source: "And the pale amanita and hyssop so blue" is the way I learned it. The "pale and the leader" and "eyes look so blue" are obviously a result of misheard lyrics (I can find no flowers named "pale" or "leader" or "eyes look"), not unlike how "the highways in the heavens" morphed into "highways in the hedges" in another well-know folk tune.

"It is likely that this is actually Eragrostis, also known as "lovegrass'" --- Really? Says who?!

Since the "says who?" above was never answered, I removed the conclusionary statement about the weed/grass eragostis, which had no citation and for which no rationale was ever given (it's not even a flower). I received the unpublished monograph I mentioned directly from Dr. Blaustein; he's asked me not to publish it yet, as he's still researching it. --Embram (talk) 23:13, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

                • added 2013 ******

musicologists have traced the song back to "The Pale Amaranthus" -- which makes the most sense: 1. it is a flower, 2. it comes in pale greens (as well as deep reds), 3. it is in Milton's Paradise Lost where it is contrasted with the rose, a fleeting bloom, while in contrast the amaranth's bloom is long lasting (and the word is used also to mean "An imaginary flower that never fades." this makes more sense -- as the whole verse is about flowers, and this line is coupled with the deeply symbolic "hyssop so blue" -- a reference to biblical flower of purification during sacrificial rituals (including the crucifixtion) - this isn't an accident, the layers of meaning in the song of a virginal girl giving herself to a lover, a false idol...

The section above (added by anonymous IP 207.55.102.131 on 22 July 2013) beginning with "added 2013" and ending with "and 2013" contains unsupported assertions concerning "hyssop so blue" and "The Pale Amaranthus." - Embram (talk) 01:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aronatus[edit]

Analysis of the Mystery[edit]

I'll twine 'mid the ringlets Of my raven black hair, The lilies so pale And the roses so fair.

Without argument one of the most charming, intriguing, and captivating of all early American folk poems and songs is The Wildwood Flower. Its haunting tale has arrested the fascination and loyalty of untold thousands. A major feature of its fascination and holding-power lies in the fact that it is a riddle that has never been solved. Clearly, as the poem unfolds, the Wildwood Flower is a jilted girl, but what is the meaning of the other metaphors and symbols built into this classic?

As the heartbroken lover sits alone in the wooded vale that was once their trysting place, she winds the locks of her raven black hair purposefully around her fingers. That image is clear enough but then the lyric becomes vague. Are the lilies flowers of the glen or are they a metaphor for something else? And what are the meanings of the roses, the myrtle, and the pale amanita with bright blue eyes? To the discerning reader or listener is evident that something other than the literal is intended here. The amanita is a deadly poison toadstool known as the Death Hood. It does not have bright blue eyes. And what can be said about the rest of the lyric? Is it simply a lament and a fantasy to try to comfort herself in her heartbreak and loneliness; or is it the revelation of a clever plot to take revenge on this opportunistic swain who has compromised her and then lost interest?

I am going to offer some thoughts as to what this fascinating tale says to me but before I do I want to preface it with some realities about the times in which this occurred, and these kinds of situations. In the lonely backwoods of early America opportunities for romance and a future did not come around that often. Beside that, in the times in which this poem was written, a girl who had lost her virtue had a greatly reduced chance of finding marriage and happiness with a respectable man. Lying to a young woman, telling her you loved her, seducing her, and then going off and leaving her was virtually a death sentence. The hatred and vengeance that eventually emerged from these numbing heartbreaks often resulted in the death of the offender. There are many such stories that have caught on as legends from the rural settings of early America. There is Frankie and Johnny, the Banks of the Ohio, Barbara Allen, and many others where jilted love and betrayal resulted in the death of the perpetrator. That having said, I wish to give you my version of the meaning of this elusive tale.

It is obvious that I possess no special insights and what I am going to say is nothing more than my own opinion. It is not offered to contradict the conclusions of anyone else, to intrude into the sanctuary that may have been built up in anyone's mind about this haunting story, or to in any way offend anyone. It is just my offering as to what is taking place here.

I'll twine 'mid the ringlets Of my raven black hair, The lilies so pale And the roses so fair, The myrtle so bright With an emerald hue, And the pale amanita With eyes of bright blue.

A girl is sitting, probably in the all-together, in a wooded glen where she used to meet with her lover, where she succumbed to his lies of love and marriage, and where she lost her virtue. The last line of verse 3 reveals that she is a frail girl and not a great physical beauty, but she has some charms. She has raven black hair which she is absently but aggressively twisting around her fingers. The Song of Solomon and other historic literature lay the foundation for inferring that lilies are her breasts. The roses are her glowing red cheeks, not glowing now because of love and excitement as in verse 2, but in this instance burning with anger and hurt. The myrtle is the dark green lashes over her eyes and the pale amanita is the ghostly white face, colorless with rage and hatred (the death hood), out of which bright blue eyes are blazing as if to make appear before her now in the glen the scene that she is envisioning in her mind.

2.

I'll sing and I'll dance, My laugh shall be gay; I'll cease this wild weeping - Drive sorrow away, Tho' my heart is now breaking, He never shall know That his name made me tremble And my pale cheeks to glow.

The girl has struggled with heartbreak and hurt until her tears are dry. Now the desperate but futile hope that he will return to her has faded. In its place a plan for revenge has begun to form. First of all she must stop acting as if she cares. She must come to the party, throw herself with abandonment into the game, charm every man whom she can, and make herself an item of discussion and an object of ambition. All of this will be a part of her plot to get even with him for what he has done to her but he must never know it. He must be made to believe that she cared no more about him than he did about her and that he was just another of her flings.

3.

I'll think of him never - I'll be wildly gay, I'll charm ev'ry heart, And the crowd I will sway, I'll live yet to see him, Regret the dark hour When he won, then neglected, The frail wildwood flower.

Until the trap is ready to spring she must put him out of her mind and apply herself to her plan. She will let her hair down and be the life of the party. She will play the lover to every man whom she can charm. Why not? What is there for her to lose now? But this will be an act, not the real desires of her heart. The purpose is to make him jealous. Such young men as he are selfish and possessive. The time will come when he will begin to wonder what he has walked away from and he will eventually take the bait and come back to her. When he does, their meeting place will not be the dance hall but again the wild wood glen where he broke her heart and ruined her life. Her plan will succeed and he will come back, but he will never leave her again. Once she has him in the power of her charms the death hood will engulf him and take his life from him.

4.

He told me he loved me, And promis'd to love, Trough ill and misfortune, All others above, Another has won him; Ah, misery to tell; He left me in silence - no word of farewell.

As the girl sits in the wild wood and contemplates her drastic scheme, she begins to rationalize. It is his fault; not hers. He told her he loved her and she believed him or she would never have given herself away to him. He spoke of love and lifelong commitment and he was so convincing. He callously took her life and future to fulfill his lust and greed. He shattered her dreams and grand hopes for husband, home, and family, and then walked away without so much as a "goodbye."

5.

He taught me to love him, He call'd me his flower That blossom'd for him All the brighter each hour; But I woke from my dreaming, My idol was clay; My visions of love Have all faded away.

Clearly an intimate conjugal relationship is indicated here. No girl needs to be "taught" how to have feelings of love and endearment. The sweet intimacy that ought to have belonged to her soul mate alone was given to this deceiver. He told her the things she wanted to hear. "She was what he had always wanted and what he lived for. She was his glorious wildwood flower that kept opening out its blossom bigger and brighter each hour."

But then the dream vanished in the harsh light of reality. It was all a lie. Her marvelous idol was nothing more that a pile of dirt. He was gone, and with him her hopes for a happy future. He had killed her, and now she had a plot to get even. It was justified; what he had done to her, she would do to him.

Could this frail country girl actually carry out her plan for vengeance? Did her wild scheme have a chance of success? Was she another Frankie with a pistol behind her back? Who knows? And for the narrative, it does not matter. She is a crushed, jilted, and heartbroken country maid who has been used and cast aside; and she is trying desperately to survive. She seeks to find some satisfaction for the wrong that has been done her. She will make him pay; he has to pay. If in no other way, it has all played out before her in the meadow this day while she sits as she was when she saw him last, twists her raven black hair forcefully around he long white fingers, and seeks consolation in feelings of revenge.

D. Earl Cripe, Ph.D Decripe (talk) 16:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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