Talk:West Ham United F.C.

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2023[edit]

In the Glory years section, please change "West Ham also won the European Cup Winners' Cup" to "The following year, West Ham won the European Cup Winners' Cup." They won the FA Cup one year and the Cup Winners' Cup the next. 2001:BB6:47ED:FA58:A1F7:3CD8:C187:D664 (talk) 21:07, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The context for the use of "also" is Greenwood's managment, underwhich both were won. small jars tc 12:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2023[edit]

In the "In popular culture" section, please include that West Ham is the only mentioned sports club in the Harry Potter book series (apart from in the Danish translation, where it's replaced by Liverpool), namely in the books Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. This is due to one of Harry's friends, Dean Thomas, growing up in a non-magical setting (as in the real world) and therefore being a football supporter.

He had a poster of the West Ham team over his bed, and Harry's best friend Ron Weasley once tried to make the players in the poster move, as magical photos do in-universe. Considering this was in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, which takes place in 1991/92 (being mentioned specifically in the early autumn of 1991), it is probably a poster of the West Ham team from that season or the previous one (1990/91). Rowling has said the reason West Ham is mentioned is due to it being the favourite club of one of her friends called Troy, although the source for that statement is from JK's old website and hard to find.

Since Harry Potter is the best selling book series ever and Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone specifically is the third most sold recreational book, combined with that West Ham is literally the only club mentioned in the books and movies, I think it's therefore appropriate to include this, as I believe it should be seen as "Popular culture"

For more info, see:

https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/West_Ham_United_Football_Club

https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Football

https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Dating_conventions

https://www.hp-lexicon.org/thing/west-ham-united/

I'd be happy to answer any and all questions as well.

Thank you in advance. Vignotum (talk) 14:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This might be significant for Harry Potter as a character, or West Ham United F.C. supporters but less relevant here. The sources would also have to indicate the significance of the support: frankly there are a lot of characters in media that support various football clubs but we don't mention them all because this is considered WP:CRUFT. Koncorde (talk) 19:28, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is mention of the Harry Potter connection here at West Ham United F.C. supporters#In modern culture so you could provide additional explanation in that section. Agreed with @Koncorde - it doesn't justify being added to the main page West Ham United page ColchesterSid (talk) 21:09, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know the rules for what counts as "significant" enough for it to be included here. I come from the perspective of a Harry Potter fan, so obviously I'm going to be biased, but it is literally the only club mentioned in the best-selling book series of all time; I think it's disingenuous to call that connection "any character in media supporting any club". The reason I thought it would qualify is because of the comparison with other mentions, such as a single football question being about West Ham in a Monty Python sketch. But that is just my opinion on the matter, and I'll gladly take yours as a correct answer.
I'm probably just wrong on this, so are there any specific rules to what counts as "significant" or "relevant" enough to warrant it being included, or is a matter of personal opinion? Does it need significantly progress the plot forward? Is the "popular" work's popularity taken into account? Are there any other factors in it? Vignotum (talk) 19:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies Vignotum, I didn't realise someone had added the "In Popular Culture" to the article because it has been appended to the bottom of the page. There is a policy on such mentions, you can read about it here at WP:POPCULTURE but it shouldn't be read without also considering WP:CRUFT which is how insertions are more generally viewed. I'll review the current "In Popular Culture" section as it needs to be of some significance (i.e. West Ham are a significant feature of the media such as being the Football Club at the centre of the story in Green Street) but then we are better writing about that within the section on Supporters or Hooliganism which is where it has the appropriate context. Koncorde (talk) 00:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I read through the linked pages, and according to those rules I'm pretty sure a passing mention such as "West Ham is the only football club referenced in JK Rowling's Harry Potter series.", which is in the supporter's page, falls short of the four questions at the end of the section titled "Good and bad popular culture references" in WP:POPCULTURE, for this specific article.
I can see someone, I'm guessing you, has removed most of the entries in the "In popular culture" section, which, although it's not what I initially wanted, does remove the ambiguity of whether passing references are allowed or not, which is the reason why I thought adding this reference was appropriate in the first place. So this discussion can be "closed" or whatever it's referred to in Wikipedia term. Thank you for helping me. Vignotum (talk) 11:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Although come to think of it, maybe it's appropriate for the section to have a link to the other references that are in the page on West Ham supporters, but not important enough for the main page? Vignotum (talk) 11:06, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or else mention those articles in the section "See also"? Vignotum (talk) 11:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Pop Culture in the supporters article: as that is an article about supporters mentioning even fictional ones would be considered relevant to the subject of the article. In contrast the article about the club should be about the club and what is significant to the club itself. So for instance we have a section on Supporters and such but we don't try to capture every named fan, or indicate any instance where supporters are mentioned in media. Instead we link to the West Ham United F.C. supporters article at the top of the section and that gives more freedom to discuss such a broader topic where the inclusion criteria can be much more flexible. Really the section on the Supporters page should be called "In Film" and "In Books" or "In popular media" or similar.
If we wanted to we could create a page called "West Ham In popular media" and there we could list all the times the club/supporters/ground has been mentioned or featured and so on - but that would then take us to whether there are sufficient reliable sources to support such an article talking independently of those items. Koncorde (talk) 13:14, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In popular culture (add.)[edit]

West Ham is the only "muggle sport team" mentioned in "Harry Potter." Can we put it in the section "In popular culture"?

HARRY POTTER WIKI says:- "Dean Thomas, a half-blood wizard raised in an all-Muggle household, was a fan of the club, and hung a poster of them in his dormitory at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Ron Weasley, however, couldn't understand what was exciting about a sport with only one ball where nobody flies." 159.192.178.176 (talk) 06:34, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2024[edit]

Bibliography[edit]

  • Belton, Brian (2007). "BROWN OUT": The Biography of West Ham Chairmen, Terence Brown. Pennant Publishing Ltd. ISBN 978-1-906015-11-4.
  • May, Pete (2024). "MASSIVE: The Miracle of Prague". Biteback Publishing. ISBN 978-1-85908-52-1. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help); External link in |title= (help) 82.20.143.37 (talk) 15:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 (talk) 01:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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