Talk:Wall of Grief

A fact from Wall of Grief appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 November 2017 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Wall of Grief is Russia's first monument ordered by presidential decree for victims killed during the political persecutions of Joseph Stalin?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2017/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Wall of Grief.

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Need better source than RFE/RL[edit]

One of the sources cited in this article is Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, an official US government propaganda outlet. Given the US's hostile stance toward Russia in recent times, this is probably not a good source of unbiased, factual information for this article. Even if the facts are true, the way they are presented is likely to be skewed, leading to problems of WP:DUE. Perhaps a better source can be found for the information? 66.191.139.234 (talk) 01:45, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a picture of the monument also — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.104.47 (talk) 17:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the notes. The pictures of this monument were once uploaded to Commons but were soon deleted due to their nature as derivatives of non-free content (per c:Commons:Freedom of panorama). With regard to the RFE/RL source, I will be looking for an additional verification, if one is available. Kou Dou 17:59, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The citation is sufficient, and requires no additional verification. We are not citing opinion as fact, but quoting statements with a citation. Various broadcasters funded by the Russian state are equally valid for the reporting of facts and statements. No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Before making sure whether the first sentence of "Reception" section is elsewhere reported, I would liked to quote the original text of RFE/RL here:

A group of Soviet-era dissidents and human rights activists spoke out against the memorial, saying it is wrong to support the "hypocrisy" of a government that is unveiling such a monument while carrying out what they called its own political repressions decades later.[1]

It appears that RFE/RL is rephrasing others' words as a statement instead of providing an anti-Russia perspective. To whoever started this conversation, please let us know what you may think about this. Kou Dou 21:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict in sources[edit]

There's some conflict in the article about whether this is the first, or even what this monument commemorates. That's understandable, there isn't really much consensus in the sources, whether Russian or other language.

BBC News - "Russia's first monument to people killed in political repression under Communist dictator Joseph Stalin."
New York Times - "the first Kremlin-promoted monument to the victims of political repression"
RBK - "the memorial to the victims of political repression"
Deutsche Welle - "designed to represent and commemorate the millions of people who were deported, executed or sent to labor camps such as the gulag "
Harvard.edu - "the second state constructed memorial of terror victims"
calvertjournal.com - "Russia's first national memorial commemorating victims of Soviet repression"
Reuters - "a monument to the victims of Stalinist purges"
MEMRI - "commemorating victims of Soviet-era political repression and terror"
Russia Today - "a memorial to all victims of political repression in Russia’s history"
mos.ru - "dedicated to victims of political repressions"

The Russian wikipedia's article simply states - посвящённый жертвам политических репрессий - "dedicated to the victims of political repression". As that article notes, there have been many other memorials in Russia already to Stalinist and other repressions - Last Address, Памятник жертвам политических репрессий (Санкт-Петербург), Памятник жертвам политических репрессий (Уфа), Молох тоталитаризма, etc.

So does this monument officially commemorate the victims of Stalinist repression, or all repression in Russian history, or repression in general? Is it the first such monument in Russia, or just the first in Moscow, or the first to be supported by the Russian government, or the first to be a national memorial rather than a regional one? 82.39.49.182 (talk) 19:07, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]