Talk:Viennese German

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Untitled[edit]

The article implies that normally in the Bavarian dialect the genitive case is used. In practice in Upper Bavaria this is not the case, and according to Polyglott's Bairisch Sprachfuehrer (ISBN 3-493-61198-6), "Der Genitiv wird gebildet aus dem Woertchen "von" und dem Dativ..." That translates to the genitive is built using the word "of" and the dative case. Covracer http://www.covracer.com 11:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Phrase book[edit]

I just added Viennese for Americans - A Phrase Book (A humorous guide to speaking Viennese; no translations into High German) to the "external links" section. It's not of encyclopedic nature; however, I think it is useful enough for academics trying to learn Viennese. samwaltz 22:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the pronunciation of the letter "l" reflects the Czech pronunciation.[edit]

Excuse me, I'm a Czech native speaker and I can say with no hesitating that there is NO DIFFERENCE between standard German "l" and Czech "l" or Polish "l". There might be some native Russian or Ukrainian speakers in the current working class and they pronounce "l" in a very different way. I can quote the article about Meidlinger L itself : "Doch die tschechische Herkunft dieses „Meidlinger L“ ist aus mehreren Gründen unwahrscheinlich, denn dieses Wiener „Vorstadt-L“ (so die wissenschaftliche Bezeichnung, etwa [ɫ]) ist dadurch entstanden, dass L im Silben- und Wortauslaut im Zuge der mittelbairischen L-Vokalisierung zunächst geschwunden war und erst nachträglich unter hochsprachlichem Einfluss restituiert wurde, eben als [ɫ] (als ein postdentales L, wie es allgemein in den östlichen mittelbairischen Mundarten im Anlaut gesprochen wird), z. B. weil oder Geld basilektal [vɶː] bzw. [gœːd], umgangssprachlich [væːɫ] bzw. [gεɫt]. Das tschechische L ist dem standarddeutschen L ähnlich (aus slawistischer Sicht ein „mittleres L“). Nach E. Kranzmayer[2] ist dieses Wiener ɫ „postdental in bestimmten Gesellschaftsschichten“.[3] Furthermore, historically speaking, I don't know any Czech dialects in which we could have found this Meidlinger L. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1028:83AC:12BE:7046:8224:2BD9:80C0 (talk) 11:23, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article says: the pronunciation of the letter "l" reflects the Czech pronunciation. There does not seem to be any audible difference between the common Czech "l" and the standard German "l".--90.179.235.249 (talk) 15:58, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you need to be a native ~~speaker~~ listener to get the difference. ;-) The Meidlinger "L" is actually very difficult for myself to produce (grown up in the 14^th district of Vienna, Penzing). The Czech "l" is miles away from Standard German's "l". Alfie ↑↓© 04:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It means the Moravian dialectal pronunciation of the hard l (these dialects keep them separate). Not the standard Czech merged soft and hard pronunciation, which is pronounced exactly like the standard German l. 2A00:23EE:13D8:B52C:95FD:D5DA:1760:E6E (talk) 12:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry only true for some people (class based) and ironically citation of the meidlinger l. it is not a standard part of viennese dialect. So if a viennese talker wants to overproduce the effect of let us say, and speak like a lower class idiot he overpronounces it but he would not use it in normal speech. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.25.24.148 (talk) 15:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personal pronouns in the second person singular[edit]

The avoidance of the personal pronouns in the second person singular, for instance "Bist deppert?" ("Are you a fool?") instead of High German "Bist du blöd?"

Is there some reference for this claim? I always understood "Bist deppert?" as "Bist d' deppert?", same for plural "Seids deppert?" as "Seids 's deppert?", that is, just a dropping of vocals for very often used constructs, like in French "J' n'ai pas du whatever". I think nobody would say "Bist deppert." instead of "Du bist deppert.", same for "Es seids deppert." Seattle Jörg (talk) 15:40, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]