Talk:Vera Holme

Vera Holme has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: June 30, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vera Holme/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mertbiol (talk · contribs) 09:52, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have read through this very interesting article. It's well written and generally very clear. I have suggestions for improving the text (below). I have not yet checked the sources, but will do so after the nominator has had a chance to respond to my initial comments. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 09:52, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for picking it up Merthiol. I really appreciate your reviewing her and look forward to collaborating with you to improve it. SusunW (talk) 13:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section[edit]

I suggest rephrasing "She was known as the Pankhursts' chauffeur..." to "She became the Pankhursts' chauffeur..."

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Pankhursts'" needs a link.

Not really sure how to accomplish this, but I linked it to Emmeline Pankhurst, the mother.

The first sentence of the second paragraph (starting "With the outbreak of World War I...") is fairly long (43 words). I suggest splitting it in two.

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest adding "they" to "and in 1915 they went to Serbia" - as Holme was the subject of the first half of the sentence (not Holme and Haverfield together).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to add a comma after "but after they were released" (third sentence, second paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please change "honored" to "honoured" for British English spelling.

Thank you. I write in AE and then have to try to "Britishise" the text. It's often that I miss a word or two, so I appreciate your second set of eyes. done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to add a comma after the first "Serbia" in the final sentence of the second paragraph.

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please rephrase "In 1923, Holme returned to Britain and performing..." (first sentence, third paragraph) - would "In 1923, Holme returned to Britain and began to perform again..." work?

Good! done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest replacing "both" with "also" in "and both managed and produced plays in the region." (The "both" could refer to Holme and Greenlees.)

Good catch. Thank! done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest starting a new paragraph with "Holme died in Glasgow in 1969."

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "Her papers are located at the Women's Library..." to "Her archive is held by the Women's Library..." to avoid repetition of "papers" in the final sentence.

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest linking lesbian and interwar period (third paragraph, final sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life[edit]

I suggest linking "timber" to lumber.

done SusunW (talk) 14:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In British English, we would generally say "close to her brother Gordon" and not ""close with her brother Gordon".

Interesting. "Close to" in AE is near, and "close with" describes a relationship. Again, I appreciate your help with BE. done SusunW (talk) 14:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "artist's model, singer and began acting" to "artist's model, singer and actor."

done SusunW (talk) 14:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stage career[edit]

I suggest adding a comma after "previously considered male occupations".

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing " which had been formed by Craig in 1911" to "formed by Craig in 1911".

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Craig's full name was mentioned at the start of the section. You may need to repeat "Edith Craig" again at the start of the third paragraph.

Unlike the Pankhursts, of which there are several, there is only one Craig mentioned in the article, so to my mind, it is clear who it is, so I've left it. But, I am happy to use her first name if you think it is necessary. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest deleting "forward" in "From this time forward..." (third paragraph, second sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "to the use of Jack" to "to using Jack".

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "She adopted masculine dress and mannerisms thereafter, which have been well documented in photographs" to "Photographs indicate that Holme began to adopt masculine dress and mannerisms." (You also need to make it clear that "she" refers to Holme and not to Twisha Singh.)

Good catch. :* done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "continued performing as a male and touring with theatrical companies" to "continued to perform as a male, touring with theatrical companies" (third paragraph, sixth sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest adding "entitled" before ""Notable Lochearnhead Lady"" (third paragraph, final sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Women's suffrage[edit]

I suggest changing "who Sylvia Pankhurst stated was..." to "who Sylvia Pankhurst described as..." (first sentence, first paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to add a comma after "The WSPU staged controversial actions" (second sentence, first paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "their objective of shouting" to "with the objective of shouting" (third sentence, first paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "which brought her to international notice" to "which brought her to international attention" (final sentence, first paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest adding "when" before "leading suffrage parades" (first sentence, second paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "and made sketches of her cell" to "where she made sketches of her cell" (third sentence, third paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to add a comma before "to plant trees in the arboretum" (fourth sentence, third paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First World War work[edit]

I suggest changing "Upon the outbreak of war..." to "At the start of the war..." (first sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"she brought her partner Holme in" sounds a little too informal to me. How about "she recruited her partner Holme" (second sentence, first paragraph)?

done. SusunW (talk) 15:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "but Holme and Haverfield remained in the territory, refusing to leave their wounded patients" to "but Holme and Haverfield refused to leave their patients" (fourth sentence, first paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Red Cross" needs a link (final sentence, first paragraph).

Not sure if this was a country-specific organization, so I linked it to the International organization. If that works, done. SusunW (talk) 15:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post war[edit]

I suggest rephrasing "They were joined there by other veterans..." to "There they were joined by other veterans..." (third sentence, second paragraph).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Return to Scotland[edit]

I suggest adding "the" before "Croatian painter Nasta Rojc" (first sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove the Oxford comma after "Greenlees" in "which she, Greenlees, and Ker all supported" (fourth sentence). Oxford commas are not routinely used in British English.

Good to know. done. SusunW (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "In 1941, she broadcast..." to "In 1941, Holme broadcast..." (final sentence) as the "she" could refer to Craig.

done. SusunW (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Death and legacy[edit]

Please link arteriosclerosis (first sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:32, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "renal failure" to "kidney failure" (first sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:32, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "a large photographic archive" to "a large collection of photographs" (second sentence) to avoid repetition of "archive".

done. SusunW (talk) 15:32, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please change "have the potential" to "has the potential" (fourth sentence).

done. SusunW (talk) 15:32, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stopping here for now[edit]

That's all for now. I will check sources on my second read through. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 09:52, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mertbiol, thank you so much for the review. I truly appreciate your efforts to improve it. Please advise if I need to do anything further or if we need to discuss more. SusunW (talk) 15:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

I have checked the following sources: [1], [3], [4] (see comments below), [5], [6] (see comment below), [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12] (see comment below), [14] and [17].

[4] Singh, Twisha (March 2022)
- Haverfield married to a wealthy baron - I think this is p12 not p15;

You are correct. Fixed. SusunW (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

- Confinement in Holloway Prison - I think this is p12 not p15.

You are correct. Fixed. SusunW (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[6] Allsopp, Jenna - I'm not convinced that this source supports "Holme began to adopt masculine mannerisms" (I'm happy that it talks about Holme adopting masculine dress).

Changed to say habits, and added a link to Dimitrijević & Baker p 54 which says "The practices characteristic of the Holme-Haverfield circle, including masculine dress, short hair, practising sports, consuming tobacco, automobility and enthusiasm for auxiliary service in war, correspond to the features of newly emerged sexual identities among women."

[12] Graham, Becky (September 2021) - The source says that Alick and Vera exchanged letters, but does not mention correspondence involving Haverfield and Wray.

Page 92 confirms that Holme corresponded with Alick Embleton and Celia Wray. Perhaps it is better if modified to say "Becoming close friends, Holme wrote letters to Embleton and Wray, particularly during World War I. SusunW (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Placing on hold[edit]

Other than the source queries above, I think the article is ready for promotion. I will therefore place the review on hold. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 16:24, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I appreciate your help with the article, Mertbiol. Let me know if anything further needs to be done and I'm happy to look again. SusunW (talk) 19:44, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Final verdict[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

This is a very interesting and informative article. It is well written and appears to cover all aspects of the life and work of Vera Holmes in detail. Congratulations to @SusunW: for their hard work to bring this nomination forward. I have no hesitation in promoting it to GA status. Great job!!! Mertbiol (talk) 19:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]