Talk:Tuvan language

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Untitled

Second link (http://www.enesay.com) does not seem to work Avihu 21:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Tone?

Tuvan doesn't have any low tone vowels. They are pharyngealized even according to native linguists (see Bicheldei) --Stacey Doljack Borsody 22:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

David Harrison in his disseration disagrees with this. He says that earlier literature called this pharyngealization although the phonetics of these vowels were not investigated. The term was used perhaps through analogy with Even, which really does have pharyngealized vowels. Harrison says that these vowels clearly show a pitch contrast but no evidence of pharyngealization (which would be raised F1 and F2) or glottalization. But, he also says that an acoustic study needs to be undertaken. I dont know this literature, so maybe someone also already done such a study.

Anyway, I assume that Harrison has investigated this more thoroughly than others since he did look at F0, F1, F2 while they did not.

You can check it out yourself here: http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/dharris2/Harrison-Dissertation.pdf peace – ishwar  (speak) 03:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I've got a number of papers by Harrison (and have actually talked with him about the matter. He says it's definitely low tone and has the data to back it up. Thanks for the revert, Ish ishwar. Straughn 13:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, going back to my materials I see I was incorrect with stating there are no low tone vowels, but why, after all the time I've spent familiarizing myself with this language have I stuck with the idea of the 'kargyraa' vowels as cited by Bicheldei? If you read the grammar study by David Harrison and Gregory Anderson published by LINCOM they call them low pitch vowels (Remember that the book is mainly a field study of Kyzyl dialect). They also mention that some speakers have a 'distinct laryngeal posture' for these vowels, but argue that the defining characteristic isn't this. The defining characteristic among all speakers is a 'very low modal voice'. They also argue that these shouldn't be counted as a distinct vowel series but only as a 'suprasegmental feature', hence I propose that they shouldn't be listed in the vowel chart and a larger description of them be included in the article. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 17:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Tuvan language template

If you are a native speaker of Tuvan then you can help translate this template into your own language:

tyv-NБо киржикчиниң төрээн дылы - тыва дыл.

Edit

--Amazonien (talk) 02:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Done by me 2 years ago --Agilight (talk) 09:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Latin Orthography of the 1930s

Regarding: Example: Pirgi tьвa dьldьņ yƶykteri (бирги тыва дылдың үжүктери) - First Tuvan language alphabet. According to this example, I see that the relationship of Cyrillic~Latin is not the usual concerning the obstruents. It looks like the dental/alveolar and velar series are typical: k > к /k/, t > т /tʰ/, g > г /g/, д > d /t/. However something else appears to be going on with the bilabials: p > б /p/, and в > в /ʋ/. I'm curious then, how was the phoneme /pʰ/ written in the 1930's roman orthography, and why was v included in the 1930's roman orthography as there seems no corresponding phoneme for it. I had assumed that p > п /pʰ/, в > б /p/, and v > в /ʋ/ as would be typical in other early Soviet Latin orthographies. I have looked at an old stamp, and see tьвa, but I also see Poşta as the Tuvan word for the French Postage. Looking up the word in a Tuvan dictionary, the word is почта, with what I assume is the phoneme /pʰ/. Also, the modern ч shows up as ş which is odd (one would expect c), unless the word used to be пошта. I'm not an expert on Tuvan, but am very curious as to what is going on here. Thank-you languagegeek (talk) 17:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm just reading through David Harrison's dissertation, and have found this:

Labio-dental approximant [ʋ] is an independent phoneme: aʋay ‘mother’, vs. ačay 'father' but [ʋ] is also an allophone of [p] in intervocalic position: xep ‘clothing’ xeʋi ‘clothing’ .

So I'm assuming that the ʋ in Tuva is the allophone of /p/. So that tьвa is the underlying form /tʰɨpa/ of [tʰɨʋa]. Thus the 1930s Latin orthography was more phonemic and the current Cyrillic is more phonetic. Thanks and sorry for the inaccurate edit, languagegeek (talk) 17:45, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

In modern Tuvan dictionary почта is present in Russian orthography as a loan word, so it is difficult to correspond it with Tuvan phonetic system. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 17:50, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Romanization of Tuvan

Please join a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Central_Asia/Tuva_task_force#Transliteration_of_Tuvan_Language. Thanks. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 22:50, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Mongol word

The Tuvan language contains many Mongol words (30%?). 182.160.6.197 (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Tyvan or Tuvan

We, tyvans, better call "Тыва" (Tyva) than "Тува" (Tuva). Also we never call "Кызыл" as Kuzul, we calls Kyzyl. In this example, "y" means cyrillic "ы". In addition, our language ISO code is "tyv", not "tuv". --Agilight (talk) 09:36, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

How do you pronounce Тыва? --JorisvS (talk) 11:04, 18 January 2015 (UTC)