Talk:Tropical Storm Hernan (2020)

GAN

This is quite good, making this a B. SMB99thx my edits! 15:43, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@SMB99thx, thank you! I've done to the best of my abilities to make it encyclopedic, informative, and accurate.JoeMT615 (talk) 15:54, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

If I have the time back then, I could have nominated this for GA. Now, I don't think this is ready for GA yet if there is no TCR. MarioJump83! 00:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

@MarioJump83, I agree, I think that to survive a GA nomination I would need a TCR to detail the Meteorological History better. Perhaps after the NHC publishes it and I make the necessary changes? JoeMT615 (talk) 16:41, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

JoeMT615, Yes... MarioJump83! 23:24, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

@MarioJump83, I have updated information in the meteorological history that the NHC published two days ago. Do you think we could have a GAN for this article now? JoeMT615 (talk) 13:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

JoeMT615, Go ahead! MarioJump83! 13:27, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

@JoeMT615: I unfortunately would like to request that the GAN be withdrawn for the time being. The article is missing a lot of information. I could help you with expanding it during the next week or two. Noah^Talk 13:56, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hurricane Noah, that's fine! If you could let me know some of the things that need expanding I could work on them. However, I did notice Destroyeraa is currently working on the GAN so I'll want his opinion on what needs to be done too. JoeMT615 (talk) 14:17, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

There's a lot more impact out there. I will compile a list of sources here either tomorrow morning or Sunday. Noah^Talk 14:22, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. When I researched the article I uncovered a lot of impact but not a lot of sources outside the ones I currently have, so the list will be useful. Take your time. JoeMT615 (talk) 14:25, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

@JoeMT615:I assume you can search up Spanish sources. Instead of listing a bunch, I will just put search links here so you can go through the sources. Do you want me to work with you to add them in or would you like to do it on your own? Noah^Talk 23:48, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

• tormenta tropical hernan danos - damage
• tormenta tropical hernan muertos - deaths (if there are any more)
• tormenta tropical hernan inundaciones - flooding

@Hurricane Noah:, I could work on them, but I don't think its my place to tell you not to, any help is appreciated! JoeMT615 (talk) 14:18, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Update: Took a look through the articles, and 1) the Debate appears to have the most info about Hernan so if they are a reliable site it could help significantly; 2) From what I'm reading the state of Guerrero may warrant its own section as well and Jalisco could need expansion; and 3) I'll work on them some more this afternoon. Thank you again for the sources. JoeMT615 (talk) 14:36, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hurricane Noah and @Destroyeraa, I have added to the impact section of Hernan, and I feel any further information would be redundant, since most sources have reported the same things:flooding, mudslides, damaged homes and bussiness, rains, etc., which are already well covered. Please let me know what else the article needs to pass review. JoeMT615 (talk) 14:44, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

If they occurred in different towns, you can add them into the article. LightandDark2000 agrees with me that it could use a bit more impact in the article. Take a look at Hurricane Bud (2018) which is an article that I created. You can discuss multiple towns with similar effects without being overly redundant. Noah^Talk 23:08, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done

@JoeMT615: Add this in too... [1] You can check out Potential Tropical Cyclone Seventeen-E for formatting on the reference. This shows three recorded rainfall amounts; 590.2 mm (23.24 in) in Cihulatán, Jalisco, 512 mm (20.16 in) in Apazulco, Jalisco, and 397.5 mm (15.65 in) in Manzanillo, Colima. You can also say there was at least 300 mm in Guerrero and 200 mm in Nayarit based on the colors. Noah^Talk 21:20, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done

Pre FAC review

• Considering how long the first sentence is, and that Baja California is part of southwestern Mexico, I don't know if the BCP needs to be mentioned in the opening sentence.
• "Moving generally northward and paralleling the west coast of Mexico, a high wind shear environment hindered" - the wind shear environment moved generally northward? See garden path sentence
• Make sure you link mph and km/h upon their first usages, as well as mbar and inHg, and inch/mm.
• What does it mean for a home to be "heavily impacted"
• Any word on the missing person in Guerrero?

Unfortunately not. JayTee🐦 16:32, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Hernan broke the record for the largest 24-hour accumulation of rainfall on record in Jalicso, with 16.2 cubic feet (475.8 liters) of water per square meter falling in Cihuatlan." - usually rainfall records are measured in the total accumulation. I'm not sure what this metric is, what a cubic foot is. I'm sure that's what the source had, but this isn't in line with other articles.

Y Deleted, as I'm not quite sure what the conversion would be and this feels trivial at this point. JayTee🐦 16:32, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Everything above is  Done. JayTee🐦 16:32, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• "On August 17, the National Hurricane Center (NHC) first noted the potential for an area of low pressure to form off the coast of Mexico in the following days." - Mexico has a few coasts. Maybe specify its west coast?

Y Done

• "It was, at the time, in the proximity of Hurricane Genevieve" - this is confusing, since the low was predicted to form in the following days, presumably after Genevieve left the area. And since it hadn't formed yet, there isn't an "It was" to discuss, since there was no "It" at the time.

Y Specified that it was predicted to form where Genevieve was. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "bout 340 miles (546 km)" - watch out for rounding

Unfortunately, the TCR doesn't specify an exact location.

The problem is with the rounding of the miles, but not the km. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Is there a reason you don't call the storm "Hernan" in the first MH paragraph? Typically we mention something about TC naming, or 40 mph winds, or naming, when a TS forms.

So here's the tricky thing: operationally, the NHC classified it as a depression, but they later acknowledged it was a storm at the time of formation. So, it was an unnamed storm until twelve hours after formation, and saying it was named Hernan upon formation would therefore constitute OR. Should I add a note so the paragraph doesn't get too off-topic? JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

I think that's worth mentioning that it wasn't named operationally until 12 hours later. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• 6:00 UTC or 06:00 UTC?

Y Done. JayTee🐦 21:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Moving around the northeastern periphery of a large cyclonic gyre" - since you mentioned the gyre earlier, you should say "the" and not "a large cyclonic gyre". Also, monsoonal or cyclonic gyre?

Y Fixed. And it was cyclonic. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• The satellite image caption reads - "Tropical Storm Hernan near the Mexican coast on August 26, with Tropical Storm Iselle to its left, the prominent ITCZ to its south, and Atlantic Hurricane Laura to its right." So you have south, as well as right/left. I'd suggest sticking to left/right/bottom, or east/west/south

Y Switched to cardinal directions. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Were there any tropical storm watches/warnings? I suggest putting preparations in the first Mexico paragraph.

No, the NHC initially wasn't expecting this significant of an impact from the storm because of how small it was. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Hernan had a sizeable impact in multiple western Mexican states despite its small size." - I'd avoid saying "sizeable" and "size" in the same sentence, but that's just me.

Y Makes sense, changed wording. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Recorded peaks of rainfall in Jalisco were reported at 23.24 in (590.3 mm) in Cihuatlán and 20.16 in (512 mm) in Apazulco." - the first part reads a bit awkwardly

Y Changed wording again. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Cihuatlan" - be consistent with the accent mark

Y Fixed. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "630 houses and nine schools experienced severe damage throughout the state." - you're not supposed to start a sentence with a number.

Y Fixed. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• You should mention the 1,674 damaged homes in the lead, which is more than the "over 600" that you have now.

Y Done. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "Landslides and floods isolated multiple communities in Jalisco, and 5 federal highways were closed between Jalisco and neighboring Colima and Nayarit." - so I'm confused what the second Jalisco paragraph is. You mentioned landslides and road closures in the previous paragraph. Try keeping similar information together, so the reader can make more sense of the overall narrative. The Jalisco section right now reads a bit listy, without much of a sense of progression. Try re-ordering the section, and maybe split it into three paragraphs, for better flow.

Y Did all of it. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "According to Sánchez, torrential rain, rip currents, sand, and debris were stirred up throughout Manzanillo from Thursday, August 27 into Friday the 28th." - we know from the MH when the dates were. Is it needed for the narrative?

Y No, good point. Reworded. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Sánchez stated that the losses in Manzanillo "are unquantifiable", and the Civil Protection authorities were carrying out damage assessments "to demand an emergency declaration due to natural disasters".[ - using quotes to get around copying directly isn't a good replacement for putting content in your own words. Was there an emergency declaration? If not, then you can mention that one was demanded. Try doing a search to see if any disaster areas were declared in Colima or Jalisco, since you have them for Guerrero.

Y I found a reliable source that gave details about declarations in Jalisco (nothing on Colima as of yet), so thanks for the suggestion. And I removed the direct quotes as recommended. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• "one person was reported missing in the state, from the town of Hacienda de Cabañas." - what happened here? Kidnapping? Runaway?

Y Clarified. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Was there really torrential rainfall in Baja California Peninsula? Conagua says only 29 mm of rain, and that's barely more than 1 inch.

Y No, and I think the Image from that source was taken in Nayarit in retrospect. Fixed. JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

The article is in decent shape, but it needs some more research and fine tuning to be ready for FAC. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:04, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink, aside from some comments above, I've fixed all of these issues. Anything else to address besides those for this to be A-class/FA-nomination-worthy? JayTee🐦 21:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

It could use a damage total, and clarification on the missing person. Having a news story about a missing person around the time of the storm doesn't mean the person actually died, or is still missing. That's the biggest thing missing IMO. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Pre-FAC to-do

• Peer review from two editors  Done
• Try to split off a preparations section  Done
• Make sure all sources follow the same format  Done
• add damage total and related source to Guerrero section (make sure values are converted properly)  Done
• add govt. source  Done
• add sources from season article that currently aren't included  Done
• make sure all conversion templates are uniform, that the first ones are not abbreviated and all succeeding ones are  Done

JayTee⛈️ 19:28, 27 October 2023 (UTC)