Talk:Tony O'Reilly/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Citizenship and titles of honour

Is O'Reilly o'really a British citizen or is it just that under the Republic of Ireland Act 1948, any Irish citizen is entitle to the same rights as a British citizen when in Britain and vice-versa? Dunc_Harris|☺ 22:40, 11 September 2004‎ (UTC)

The Republic of Ireland Act does not apply (and is quite irrelevant) on the status of British citizenship. British law applies, including and specifically the British Nationality Act 1948 - the law is quite complicated but suffice it to say that anyone born in Ireland in 1938 - as O'Reilly - can claim British citizenship and passport on compeltion of the correct forms and lodgement to the relevent United Kingdom authorities. Regarding Irish citizens rights you probabily mean the Ireland Act, 1949 passed by Westminster. Djegan 22:59, 11 September 2004‎ (UTC)
The Republic of Ireland Act does not confir citizenship rights on anyone, an merely extends the functions of the President of Ireland and allows the State to be discribed the Republic of Ireland. The Ireland Act, 1949 was a reaction to the former act and cleared the status of the Republic of Ireland and its citizens regarding British law, it also allowed certain other people from Ireland to claim British citizenship. Since this time reforms of the Irish constitution and law have given British citizens reciprocol rights in the Republic of Ireland (perhaps not to the same extent), specifically regarding voting and nationality beyond that granted by EU law. Djegan 23:21, 11 September 2004‎ (UTC)
The article British nationality law and the Republic of Ireland clarifies the circumstances in which a person connected with the Republic of Ireland may hold British nationality. As far as Tony O'Reilly is concerned he may be either: a. a British subject by declaration based on his pre-1949 Irish birth, b. a British citizen (by descent) if his father was born in the United Kingdom & Colonies (as they existed in 1949) or c. a British citizen based on registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom. It's not clear which applies. JAJ 20:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Titles of honour again (Dr Sir Anto KBE Phd)

Isn't Sir Anthony "Tony" O'Reilly KBE tautological? Shouldn't it be either "Sir" or "KBE" but not both. I thought KBE was usually used by those with honorary knighthoods who aren't entitled to use the "Sir". I'm open for correction, of course. --Ryano 15:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

On the first point I'm not sure, though O'Reilly is entitled to be a full knight rather than just an honorary one as he has British citizenship.GordyB 20:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Is he even a KBE? It's unusual in recent times for substantive knighthoods for UK residents to be KBE as opposed to Knight Bachelor. Most substantive KBEs are honorary knighthoods that have been upgraded following acquisition of British nationality. If he is KBE it may be because he resides outside the UK. JAJ 04:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't think residence has anything to do with it, I think entitlement is entirely dependent on citizenship (or lack of it).GordyB 13:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't actually aware of the distinction, but the Order of the British Empire article says that "Most Knights Commander [i.e. KBE] are honorary members or British subjects living abroad, with only a handful being residents of the United Kingdom." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryano (talk • contribs) 14:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
It is amazing how many things I don't know about Britain. Is there somewhere we can post this question about title entitlement such as a Wikiproject?GordyB 14:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Approval of Irish Government

In reference to: He was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II in the 2001 New Year's Honours, with the approval of the Irish Government, in recognition for his work as head of The Ireland Funds charity.

It is important to point out that as far as the United Kingdom is concerned, approval of the Irish government for an award to an Irish citizen is not required. Whether an Irish citizen chooses to request Irish government permission to accept such an award, and what sanctions can be applied by the Irish government if this is not done, is a matter to be resolved in the Republic of Ireland and is not the concern of the United Kingdom. JAJ 04:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd really love to know what oath this guy took to the head of the British state. I've asked the question on the K.B.E. talk page. Because it has got to be treasonous, particularly considering his almost total control of the Irish media. And what journalist is going to open their mouth against him in these circumstances? The sooner Denis O'Brien, himself a dubious character at best, topples him the better for Irish democracy. 86.42.119.12 (talk) 00:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The O'Reilly Foundation

Why is there no article, or was there? It is a well-cited body. 217.213.169.185 18:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

And has given a lot of money. But there is an article now and it is linked, so this item is closed. 90.234.72.238 (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Query on death of key businessman

Tony O'Reilly did not die on 3rd October 2007. That was Tony Ryan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.123.185.230 (talk) 08:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Assessment review, image

Noting several edits recently, reviewed Assessment but still Start. More substance on life and business needed for B. And one or more pictures would be very welcome - I am surprised there is not something from a public event. SeoR (talk) 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

But there are some good pictures of the man himself, his wife, some sons and daughters and in-laws (notably also, not some others) on a number of sites. 83.241.234.4 (talk) 18:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
This may help, [1]. Most are identifiably from news sources, and so copyright, but could be linked. One or two are really strange, one from Italy, and one of a very-very-old-looking TOR, and several link to good articles to expand this one, eircom and a Valentia one, and some of the other related ones such as on Gavin and Tony "Baby Jesus" Junior. Some good historic lookbacks too, the guy certainly had the looks, and it is uncanny how Gavin in particular resembles him. 83.241.234.4 (talk) 18:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Family

Justine O'Reilly Still, husband Peter, (formerly) South Africa or Tanzania, now Kildare, Ireland

Tony Jr, ex?-wife Robin Rafford O'Reilly, often in the Indo as Dr O'Reilly but was MBA (and later) medic, cancer specialist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.234.55.216 (talk) 17:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

No idea where eldest is but heard other daughter is still Ireland- based. 90.234.72.238 (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Both eldest and other are UK-based, I believe. 83.241.234.4 (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Source for the 18 children, heraldic databases: Susan (Alexandra and Maxmillian Wildman), Cameron (Elliott, Oscar, Tara and Sasha O'Reilly), Justine (Savannah, Zinzan and Ashanti O'Reilly-Still), Gavin (Alanna and Lauren O'Reilly), Tony Junior (Grey, Tony and Miles O'Reilly), Caroline (Cameron, Andrew, Warren and Jack O'Reilly). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.66.20 (talk) 06:04, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Was 16 or 18 unsure before, but this looks comprehensive. Some names! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.213.147.244 (talk) 12:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Tony o'Reilly Jr

Good articles on two sons, maybe on third also: (cut remainder as clearly used to form the mentioned article on this person and his family) 213.221.4.119 (talk) 21:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Sources for expansion

Sources for other perspectives

Bio: "O’Reilly: a career of spectacular brilliance", The Village, 4 July 2007

Earnings and approach to staff: "Tony O'Reilly's Cash Cow", The Village, 5 July 2007

Critiques: "Taking on O'Reilly", The Village, 4 July 2007 "O'Reilly and the Jet Set: Cronies and Accountability", The Village, 4 July 2007, including side item on 1997 critiques in Business Week "Irish public life: coarsened and dishonoured", The Village, 9 August 2007

More should be gathered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.165.177.110 (talk) 00:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

83.241.234.4 (talk) 18:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The Bio

It may have been by a close associate but it still has value, if someone could get a hold of a copy and use some: London, UK, 1994: Hodder & Staughton; Fallon, Ivan: The Player, The Life of Tony O'Reilly; 23 cm, 360 pp, ill / ports; HB, poss TPB or PB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.96.226 (talk) 23:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

(Just to qualify the above - my understanding is that Fallon was not a close associate before, rather a journalist who liked (and continued to do) biographies. They became closer later, and he is now a close deputy.) SeoR (talk) 08:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

And related:

"Overheard at the Indy birthday bash ..." Who said what about who at the Independent birthday party: Tony O'Reilly on Ivan Fallon: "The thing about Ivan is that you have to take the smooth with the smooth." Chancellor Gordon Brown on editor Simon Kelner: "He once spent all his time at the Groucho, but now he's a country gentleman." O'Reilly on Kelner: "When I was first introduced to Simon Kelner I thought I was interviewing him as my editor whereas he thought he was interviewing me as his proprietor. Simon's view of me was that I should put up, pay up and stay in Ireland, which I've done." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.96.226 (talk) 23:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Using the biography

I will pick up a copy of the book later this morning, and will begin to use it to flesh out the article. A good article but notably light on three main sources of fame - Heinz (hardly there at all), Irish business dealings (no depth) and the rugby (not bad but a little more needed). Will also finish a related article today. SeoR (talk) 08:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Good on ye boyo, as they say. I have given you a start with some additions - many of which you will see in that book - over. Some of the items in "other perspectives" also sound worth a look as general searches will give little, the meeja looks after its own, even if they otherwise can't stand you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nocensorhere (talk • contribs) 18:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Book lost in luggage on a business trip last week, due back tomorrow, and will use to reference and expand article next week. SeoR (talk) 15:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Also seeking "Paper Tigers" for context, such as the reported conversation between Tony and his wife about wanting "the Independent everyone knows about". SeoR (talk) 15:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Reassessment

It looks like much has been added since the Assessor comment above, perhaps time to look again. No picture though but perhaps simply not that often available at public events in Ireland. Then again has no one been to an Ireland Fund or INM AGM with a camera. And perhaps someone should add something on the seeking of Gov loans or guarantees for pocket company Waterford Wedgwood? 90.234.72.238 (talk) 20:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I was that assessor, and I will review the article at the weekend, if time allows. Offhand, it certainly looks as if it is developing in the right way, and I see a whole range of new sources / references are present on the talk page. Only question now might be if the number of categories is getting out of hand - but then again, we do have one of Ireland's "big figures" here. Well done to all who have added or refined. Indeed now the main gap is a decent useable picture. SeoR (talk) 20:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Especially as the family category is now setup, and having helped with sons, I think there is a case for an article on the current Mrs. O'Reilly, who is a notable figure in her own right. Volunteers, perhaps with racing industry knowledge? SeoR (talk) 20:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Adds

What about the Assistants, O Deasy and the new personal, and the INM ones? 217.213.147.244 (talk) 12:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Shorecliffe House, Glandore

Not for main article maybe but it is noted in Liam Deasy's "Towards Ireland Free" (Royal Carbery Books, 1973), pp 66-67 and 333-334, that it was a base for at least one IRA training camp. Later belonged to an Icelandic lady. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.117.156.200 (talk) 19:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This article: obsequious beyond words

Can this article be any more sycophantic? 'Sir Anthony Joseph Francis O'Reilly PhD'. Oh it's overbearing. Every employee of the entire Independent Newspapers group must be rotating around editing this article. How about his role in the Eircom takeover? Is it true that he used his newspapers to talk down the shareprice, costing Irish investors hundreds of millions and then came in and took over the company at a steal? Just what percentage of the total cost of those buildings in UCD and Trinners was given by O'Reilly in exchange for naming the buildings after him? Was if 5% or 6%? This article implies he funded the entire thing. He did no such thing. This article also talks about his "charitable donations" and mentions huge money like... €25,000. Wow. All of which are named after him. When it comes to "charitable donations" this guy is no Chuck Feeney (just compare the articles here), an man much richer than O'Reilly who has given much, much more to Irish society, particularly our universities, without expecting his name on everything (or anything, for that matter). What sort of human beings are fawning over this individual? Well, there seems to be a fair few IPs simply editing information related to O'Reilly. What are the chances that these IPs are owned by one of O'Reilly's companies??? This is a guy who instructed the RTÉ News reporter a few years ago that he expected to be referred to as 'Sir'. There's humility. Most importantly of all, of course, is that there is not a single word about the effect of this man's control of the Irish media upon democracy in Ireland. That the then Taoiseach and Tánaiste called around to his house in St Stephen's Green before the last election to seek his supportis terrifying. At least in Britain, Rupert Murdoch has some competition. 86.42.119.12 (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Please read the article before such commentary - contributors, such as those who included most of the 3rd intro paragraph ("has also been at times a controversial figure, with questions about "aggressive accounting" .. - notably at Heinz and Independent News & Media, high executive pay especially while "squeezing" staff cost in the Independent and Waterford, non-independent board members, some significant problem businesses such as Fitzwilton, concerns about his media power (especially in Ireland) - and related political influence- and his long-term "tax exile" status."). might take legitimate issue with your allegations. Likewise, there are comments on business matters, pay and even a small court matter... Hardly a whitewash! But be very careful about such things as the eircom allegations, unless you have citable evidence.
If you want to add or expand a section on controversial aspects of the article's subject, go ahead, citing your points - there is a section higher on this page with plenty of material. But don't go around insulting other contributors just because you don't like Mr. O'Reilly. SeoR (talk) 09:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah shure there's nothing as predictable as begrudgery. Whoever you are, I doubt you'll find many with much time for the tax-dodging but, whether O'Reilly, Smurfit (an Honorary Consul of Ireland, no less) - or your hero Denis O'Brien. But might be worth remembering what these people, at least the first two, actually did, and O'Reilly still does. They built real businesses, gave (and O'Reilly gives, even if in reducing numbers) real jobs, and did so at their own risk (shared with others of course) and sweat. If nothing else, I'll give The Man and his Greek family-in-law kudos for keeping the basket case that is Waterford Wedgwood afloat. No one made them do it, there's no thanks, and they're a few 100 million shy as a result. But add something to the article if you must. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.154.66.195 (talk) 11:23, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Assessment Level

  1. The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.

DONE, strong referencing even if more would be better

  1. The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.

DONE, even some small details present

  1. The article has a defined structure.

DONE, thoroughly

  1. The article is reasonably well written.

DONE

  1. The article contains supporting materials where appropriate.

Illustrations are encouraged, though not required. Diagrams and an infobox etc. should be included where they are relevant and useful to the content. OK

  1. The article presents its content in an appropriately accessible way.

DONE

217.29.16.162 (talk) 23:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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