Talk:Toby Keith

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Toby Keith article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1: 365 days

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Mid-importance).

Country Music High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Country Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to country music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Country MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Country MusicTemplate:WikiProject Country MusicCountry Music articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Oklahoma Mid‑importance

	Oklahoma portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oklahoma, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Oklahoma on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OklahomaWikipedia:WikiProject OklahomaTemplate:WikiProject OklahomaOklahoma articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Record Production Low‑importance

	Record production portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Record Production; a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's documentation of Record Production articles. Questions or comments related to record production and related articles are welcome at the project's talk page. Anyone interested may join the project: add your name to the list of project members!Record ProductionWikipedia:WikiProject Record ProductionTemplate:WikiProject Record ProductionRecord Production articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Lori Payne (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article.

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

February 4 to 10, 2024

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add: Death date February 5, 2024. Complications from stomach cancer. 2603:6010:AB02:2A84:4CB4:9F15:9D4E:4182 (talk) 08:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 16:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2024 (2)[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

PLEASE CHANGE DATE OF DEATH He passed away this last night On febuary 5th. He was buried at Rose Hill Burial Park in Oklahoma City. Official website: https://www.tobykeith.com/news/toby-keith-passes-away-due-to-cancer Official Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2_8_pvuiko/

Thank you! Adizoman (talk) 09:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also, please provide more than just primary sources. Shadow311 (talk) 16:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done now. The Lead and Infobox already list Feb. 5, 2024 for his death. So those are OK. ~~There needs to be a sentence or two about his passing at the end of the Musical career section though.~~ Death sentence has been added. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:05, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Note that it has been removed as it's placed in personal life) Aaron Liu (talk) 00:58, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio[edit]

@CAWylie @PedigreeWWEFigz87V2 The copyvio tag is different from other article tags. It is meant to hide the text where there is a copyright violation. In the case of this article, there is a copyright violation in the first paragraph, which is why I put it there to hide it. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only 30% copyvio? Just reword it like I did. Wylie pedia @ 21:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That was what I was planning to do but I was on the bus. I'm still not sure if revisions will need to be deleted. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:17, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should've been a cowboy.[edit]

All references to this claim of “Should’ve been a cowboy” being the “most-played country song” of the 1990s link back to a comment made in an article on CMT News from 01 Mar 2007 (accessed via wayback machine at https://web.archive.org/web/20150928163512/http://www.cmt.com/news/1553672/toby-keith-jams-notches-50-million-airplays/ )

This article is about an event at BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc.) two days prior that celebrated Keith getting 50 million airplay performances. In the article, Craig Shelburne makes a claim that “Should’ve been a cowboy” was “ultimately the most-played country song of the 1990s.”

He doesn’t offer any attribution to that claim.

In the article published by BMI on 2 March 2007 about that evening, the organization discusses that song along with a few others. It rattles off a few facts about Keith and some of his songs but makes no mention of this claim.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/50_million_performances_cant_be_wrong_bmi_toasts_toby_keith

In an article published by BMI on 7 Apr 2003 about recently achieved airplay milestones references “Should’ve been a cowboy” hitting 3 million. Showing that it has only achieved that milestone in the years following the decade in question. It also makes no mention of the “most played song” claim.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/20030408_toby_keith_celebrates_million_air_windfall

An earlier article from BMI about Keith donating to the NSAI artist endowment discusses the hit single, saying Keith “racked up his share of mainstream success” and mentions the nominations and awards the song received, but makes no mention of the “most played” claim.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/20000921_toby_keith_honored_for_nsai_artist_endowment_gift

Later articles about Keith are also missing any reference to this claim despite them citing several other accomplishments of Keith’s.

On 17 Sep 2009 BMI has an article about Keith being honored as the NSAI artist of the decade. The article discusses his growing airplay performance count (eclipsing 60 million) and cites “Should’ve been a cowboy” as one of his hits, but again makes no reference to the ‘most played” claim.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/toby_keith_to_be_honored_as_nsai_songwriter_artist_of_the_decade

On 31 Aug 2016 BMI has an article announcing Keith being awarded 7 BMI Million-Air awards. It lists 7 songs including 3 that have 4 million or more plays. It references that Keith also has certificates for past tracks including “Should’ve been a cowboy” but makes no mention of an increase in the award level for that song, suggesting it is still at 3 million.

There is also no mention of the “most played” claim.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/toby_keith_awarded_seven_bmi_million_air_awards

In an undated article in 2022 Keith is given the “BMI Icon Award.” It references a litany of accomplishments and specifically names “Should’ve been a cowboy” as his first hit, but makes no reference to the ‘most played’ claim.

https://www.bmi.com/award-shows/country-2022/

Additionally, an article from Billboard.com on 7 Dec 2018 Specifically about “Should’ve been a cowboy” hitting its 25^th anniversary discusses several facts about the song and some facts about Keith’s career in general and fails to mention any claim about it being the ‘most played’ country song of the 90s.

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/toby-keith-reflects-25th-anniversary-shouldve-been-a-cowboy-8489149/

From 1990 to 1999 there have been 16 songs that have held the number 1 spot on the country charts for four weeks. Eight songs that have held the number 1 spot for five weeks, three that have held it for six weeks, and one that held it for eight weeks. “Should’ve been a cowboy” held it for just 2 weeks, along with dozens of other songs.

While it isn’t impossible for a song to still manage to get more plays than any other over the course of the decade, it is certainly unlikely that the most popular song of the decade would be one that only held the top spot for 2 weeks.

A slew of tributes to Keith since his passing – including pieces from Vanity Fair and the AP – have cited this ‘Most played” claim.

Notably, the tribute from BMI does not.

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/bmi-remembers-legendary-singer-songwriter-toby-keith

This claim started as an unsubstantiated, uncited claim on a CMT story that is no longer visible on the live web. It has permeated into dozens of articles about Keith since his passing. The likely source for this misinformation is Wikipedia.

Unless we are to believe the unlikely reality that a short-lived number one song managed to outperform every other song from the decade and that an organization which frequently honored Mr. Keith and listed off many accomplishments, never bothered to mention this one – even in their memoriam, and that Billboard.com also never bothered to mention it, then we must conclude it is false and we must remove this claim unless it can be substantiated in a primary source of some sort. BigFellow1916 (talk) 20:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that there’s a live link at https://www.cmt.com/news/omne16/toby-keith-jams-notches-50-million-airplays, not that it changes anything. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:03, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The original cited link was dead in all 4 locations so I made a brief effort to find it live before going to the wayback machine for efficiency purposes. I saw all the articles using the suspect information and wanted to get it edited as soon as possible once I was confident in my conclusions.

I am guessing they are not finding the old CMT link but are instead getting the information from us. BigFellow1916 (talk) 05:20, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the lead with the copyvio cleanup and removed the 1993 tidbit. "Cowboy"'s chart path is noted in the Career section below and does not mention the "most-played" bit. Leads should only highlight information contained in the article. Wylie pedia @ 21:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NBC and USA Today also repeat the claim, but as you mention it is suspicious and these articles could be simply parroting our article. I'll ask the experienced folks at RSN. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Toby Keith and Spinning Airwaves. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2024 (UTC) Aaron Liu (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possible WP:BACKWARDSCOPY?[edit]

I recently cited unsourced info in the article using this source. I undid my edit after I realized the source contained "When the oil and gas industry declined in 1982, Keith found himself unemployed." and "Keith left in the middle of a concert if he got paged to work in the oil field.", which are extremely similarly written (near copies) to text in the early life and education section The news article itself was published today, while the quotes from the article corresponds to an edit made from at least as early as 2004 I'm not sure what to do here. Do we just not use the kjrh source and move on? Or should some other action be taken? 2G0o2De0l (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We definitely shouldn't use the KJRH source. Hopefully we can find where these actually come from. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:58, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sandbox[edit]

Just a heads-up: I am planning on rewriting the Toby Keith article. My main focus right now is gutting and redoing the section on his music career. Follow my progress at User:TenPoundHammer/Toby Keith, and feel free to contribute if you want. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Villanova[edit]

He never went there Kcarrino (talk) 02:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Aaron Liu (talk) 02:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Can you include where he was to star in the 2011 movie Bloodworth, but dropped out? 64.178.185.75 (talk) 12:52, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2024[edit]

The first sentence of the article should read "Toby Keith Covel (July 8, 1961 – February 5, 2024) was an American country music singer, songwriter, record producer, actor, and businessman." 2600:1700:EA01:1090:39F2:E8CF:413C:3D96 (talk) 08:21, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]