Talk:Timeline of the introduction of color television in countries/Archive 1

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Argentina

I believe colour tv was started in 1978 in Argentina in 1978 for the World Cup.

Colour brodcasts from neighbouring countries

In some cases the remarks "color brodcasts from XXX available since ..." are hard to believe. For example Japanese broadcasts in China, Norwegian broadcasts in Iceland etc. Has anyone looked at a map? Iceland is approx 1,000 km away from Norway, how would a terrestrial telecast get over that distance?

I think these overspills from neighbouring countries ought to be mentioned only if it's relevant, for example if a large portion of the population actually used those foreign broadcasts, if there are strong cultural ties between the two countries involved, if a microstate watches television from a next door country, or special cases such as Italy where people helped themselves to get at colour television because local politics stalled the introduction. Anorak2 (talk) 09:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, in the case of Israel and Jordan, I known many people in Israel bought color TV sets in order to watch the Jordanian television color broadcasts back in the 70ies. Political tension and language gap were bridged by the fact that JTV purchased and broadcasted American and European shows in full color, and these broadcasts were received quite well in most parts of Israel. So, I don't know about Norway and Iceland, but these overspills are certainly relevant in some cases. DrorK (talk) 22:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure there are instances where it makes sense to mention such overspills, and if you say Israel/Jordan is one, I'll take your word for it. I'm just saying the criteria should be applied more strictly. Examples I find doubtful (without having actual evidence) are China/Japan, Norway/Iceland, Australia/New Zealand. The latter two due to geographical remoteness, the first due to lack of cultural ties between the two countries and technical incompatibility (Japan uses NTSC which is incompatible with Chinese TV sets, and multistandard sets would have been hard to get at in China). Anorak2 (talk) 13:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Spain

Spain hosted the Eurovision Song Contest 1969 and it was filmed in color, yet the chart says the Spanish television introduced color broadcasts only in 1975. Was the ESC an exception? DrorK (talk) 01:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

speculation: They could have sent colour signals to other countries while broadcasting black&white domestically. Anorak2 (talk) 02:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Is this really possible? The Israeli television had a similar problem. In 1979 the Israeli government still refused to allow color transmissions in the public channel (the only local TV channel at the time) for all kinds of pseudo-social reasons. When the ESC '79 was broadcasted from Jerusalem the government had to allow color transmissions, and they were received well in the many color TV sets that Israelis bought for the occasion. I therfore conclude that broadcasting live in color only to specific regions is impossible, or maybe the Spanish technitians were really creative. BTW, the Israeli television managed to earase the color signal from recorded shows bought abroad, but even then, people were able to restore the earased signal with special device that were installed in the color TV sets sold in Israel at the time. DrorK (talk) 18:37, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure that's possible. They might have used colour equipment in the studio and relay colour signal to foreign broadcasters, while branching a black&white version of the same signal to their domestic network. Transforming a colour signal to a black&white one is very easy technically. Any video mixing desk can do it (also in 1969). Your television set can even do it on its own: Turn "colour saturation" down to zero. A colour tv signal is essentially a black&white signal with additional information added in a way that black&white tv sets ignore. It's very easy to remove that additional information thus regaining a pure black&white signal. There's nothing creative or magic about it.
Whatever motivated Israeli TV to transmit their ESC in colour before its official introduction, the reason can't have been technical.
I'm curious about those foreign shows where colour wasn't removed "properly" and viewers managed to "restore" colour. I could speculate about what happened, but anyway that is not normal. If a television station really wants to remove colour, they can do it perfectly and transmit a "true" black&white signal, and they don't have to be Einsteins :). Anorak2 (talk) 11:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, there is a special article in he-wp about color erasure in the Israeli television transmissions during the late 70ies and the device devised to restore the color signal. It was called anti-mekhikon, i.e. "anti-eraser". It includes so many technical terms, that it would be impossible for me to translate it. From what I understand, IBA bought cheap monochrome equipment in the late 1960ies, when color equipment started to be the standard in Europe. Maybe some of it was even used equipment from European stations. During the mid-70ies, monochrome equipment became almost unavailable, so any new piece of equipment bought supported color transmissions. This meant that color tapes bought abroad, inserted into one of the new VCRs and tranmitted through the newly bought transmitors would be received in color, a thing that was unacceptable on the Israeli government for political reasons. The IBA technicians used some method to erase the color signal, but it could be restored with a device installed by private companies in color TV sets. These devices had several modes (three I think), and you had to switch between them until you got natural colors. Sometimes the colors changed while watching and you had to switch the mode to get natural colors again. In 1977 and 1979 Israel had to send color transmissions abroad for the Egyptian president visit coverage and for the ESC '79. As far as I know these live transmission were received in Israel in full color even without that "anti-eraser" device. As far as I know, the first taped programs transimitted in colors without any attempt to erase the color signal were in 1980. Filming local programs in color started gradually, and in February 1983 the process was completed with the first daily newscast filmed and broadcasted in full color. DrorK (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Probably they just killed the burst (the signal that "synchs" the colour information to the image), but left the colour information as such intact. If this is true, the device simply had to reinsert the synch. Once again this is just speculation.
Incidentally didn't Israel host the ESC 2 times in the 1970s? Which of the two events are you referring to? abanibi obohebev Anorak2 (talk) 10:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if I could find the right person to translate the "anti-eraser" article from Hebrew into English. It should be interesting, but it would be hard work to translate it. About the ESC, the Israeli television had the right to host the show in 1979 and in 1980, but it had to relinquish this right in 1980 because the Israeli Broadcasting Authority couldn't afford such an international production two years in a row. Eventually, ESC '79 was held in Jerusalem, and ESC '80 was held in The Hague, The Netherlands. DrorK (talk) 07:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I think you mean it was taped in color, not filmed. Whether a program was taped in color or not, if the broadcast facility did not have the hardware for color broadcasts, the signal would have to go out in monochrome. Remember, the production company and the broadcast facility are two different entities. The production company was making a program to be broadcast across Europe, where color was the norm in most countries. They were not going to adjust to the lowest common denominator and tape a program in monochrome just because the host country's broadcast system wasn't ready for color yet. — Walloon (talk) 21:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
The production company was TVE, and it means that in 1969 the Spanish national television had some color equipment (or maybe it rented the equipment). It also means that the first Spanish color transmission was in 1969, even though it was an exception and regular monochrome transmissions continued until 1975. Shall I add it as a remark? DrorK (talk) 11:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I should clarify this: the Eurovision Song Contest has always been broadcasted live. DrorK (talk) 11:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
TVÉ rented color TV cameras and equipment from ARD in Germany for the 1969 Eurovision Song Contest. But unless the broadcast facilities in Spain had the hardware for color transmissions, the broadcast would have been seen only in monochrome in Spain, and in color elsewhere. Production hardware and transmission hardware are two different things. You need to find documentation that the broadcast was transmitted in Spain in color. A trivia item in the IMDb for this broadcast says, "Although the show was broadcast in color for the Eurovision and Intervision Networks and through satellite to Chile, Puerto Rico and Brazil, the technical limitations of TVE at that time forced the transmission to be done in black and white inside Spanish territory." — Walloon (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I get it now. Thanks. DrorK (talk) 17:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't a timeline be in date order?

Would it not be more appropriate to the title 'timeline' if the entries were in date order so as to indicate clearly the progress through time, and who was first? --Memestream (talk) 23:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Seems resonable to put the list in date order. It can be sorted by date at the moment just by clicking the square next to Date (it's a sortable table). Laydan M (mailbox) 05:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

New Zealand introducing colour

For several days, I have noticed that several IP addresses have been changing New Zealand to 1979, saying that it was introduced for the Eurovision Song Contest. This is not true - colour was introduced in 1974 for the 1974 British Commonwealth Games in the New Zealand city of Christchurch, and there is substantial evident to prove it.

TVNZ's history section state the following:-


There are also two YouTube videos that show this is the case: this one shows the history of TVNZ, of which it shows a part on the 1974 Games, and also shows the openings of TV One and TV2, all of which in colour. This one shows the opening of TV One in 1975, with the top half of "O" in the logo is rainbow coloured.

So don't tell me colour started in 1979! It was 1974.

Laydan M (mailbox) 05:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, New Zealand introduced color in November of 1973. At the time it was meant only for special occasions, the Commonwealth Games certainly being one of them. But the "color or nothing" colorcasts really took off with the Eurovision contest held on April Fool's Day (New Zealand time) of 1979.192.220.136.147 (talk) 23:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Can you verify that? I'll have to tag them with {{fact}} in the meantime until it can be verified. Laydan M (mailbox) 04:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, someone has changed they year back to 1979. Number one, you can't cite it. Number two, full time colour means when the primary signal is in colour - regardless of whether the programme is in black and white or colour. Number three, we don't say for the UK that full time colour transmission from 1985, do we? - that's when they switched off the black-and-white 405 line system. Lcmortensen (mailbox) 23:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

"Color" vs. "Colour"

The spellings "color" and "colour" were both being used in the table. To create agreement with the article title, using the American spelling, I have changed all instances of "colour" to "color". --Ericdn (talk) 23:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

On creation the page, I chose to use "color" rather than my native Commonwealth "colour" because I thought there would be nore consensus over the American spelling. I intended for "color" and "colour" to be used interchangeably, depending on the country (i.e. UK, Austalia, New Zealand use "colour", USA use "color"). Laydan M (mailbox) 20:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Personally, I don't care which English style is chosen for an article, but I do like to see consistency throughout the article. Thus, it makes sense to me that an article with an American English title should use only the American English style throughout. I can see your thinking when you say that each country's entry in the table will determine the style to be used. However, that has two problems that I can see. First, America and related territories alone would use the style that's used in the article's very title. Second, it looks rather unpolished to have conflicting styles in the same article. My recommendation is to keep the title and article style the same, and to use only that one style throughout. If the British style should be used, then the article title should be changed to reflect this. --Ericdn (talk) 20:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Puerto Rico 1979, not 1967

97.120.133.131 (talk) 06:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

End of black & white in Spain is wrong

It is said that from 1977, only commercial breaks were done in B&W, and only until 1978. But this is clearly wrong. At least in 1979, there are still shows that were produced, and therefore televised, in black & white, and here is a proof, from RTVE's official webpage. http://www.rtve.es/rtve/20100315/historias-tele-archivo-rtve/323743.shtml In this page, we can find a streaming link to a chapter from the children show "El Recreo", which is from 1979, and it is black & white. So the Spanish data should be revised.--Manbemel (talk) 23:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Define Color Change-over.

The article does not differentiate between the first color transmissions, and the start date of compulsory requirements for color. In Australia, broadcasters gradually installed color equipment from 1967 onwards, and occasionally, with great fanfare, did color transmissions. By late 1973, color was pretty much standard. The government had settled on the PAL3 standard by the mid 60s, but did not make PAL3 transmission compulsory until 1975. The US had its first color system in the late 50s, although it was not NTSC. NTSC was made a standard in the early 60s.220.244.84.169 (talk) 01:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Thailand

The start date of color TV in Thailand is 27/11/67 (27/11/2510), not 1975. Channel 7 and Channel 3 always broadcast in color, and Channel 4 and Channel 5 started in 1974. And there were no TVT11 in 1975.--58.11.96.9 (talk) 05:45, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

It was September 23, 1975. It couldn't have been otherwise, and I've always known that Thailand's television service in those days was a royal monopoly.207.224.28.114 (talk) 13:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

REPLY: Let me ask you, are you Thai? If you are, then you should read this, it clearly says Channel 7 started in 2510, which is 1967, and Channel 3 in 2513, which is 1970, and other channels in 2517, which is 1974. And removing my comment, it's rude. You're probably confused between Thailand and South Korea. Because 1975 is the start date of color TV in South Korea, not Thailand, and in SK the color TV started full-time in 1983 as like what you said. I studied about TV broadcasting. And you are from Oregon, USA.

By the way, for SK, I don't really sure it was September 23 or not, I'm not Korean, and I've never lived in Korea.

And you did not know about TVT did not exist in 1975 until I told you, and you edited after that. By the way, it was only YOU who said 1975.--110.49.251.73 (talk) 15:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

I checked with my friend and it seems like 1975 is the start of the color TV in the countryside.

In 1975 Thai TV was not a monopoly, BEC-TERO private company launched TV3 in 1970, and it was always in color. By the way in Cambodia, isn't 1993 too late? 1985 is also too late. Even third world countries has to start broadcasting in color if after 80's, and Cambodia is a developing country now, so it must have color TV as of 1980's, but not as late as 90's. By the way it was always said 1973 until your first edit in 2009. By the way, I'm not the only one who said 1967. Many people does.--110.49.251.73 (talk) 15:29, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

By the way, you keep putting BenH, this proves you that you are the sock puppet of BenH.--110.49.251.73 (talk) 15:29, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

And you also change Philippines from 1966 to 1974.--110.49.251.73 (talk) 15:33, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Television in Thailand had been system B (625 lines) since it started in 1958 (on Channel 5, by the way) and therefore chose PAL color. Channel 7 was only LAUNCHED in 1967, and Channel 3 in 1970 (there's a big difference, you know).

I am definitely NOT a sock puppet of BenH, and I also know that the Phillippines adopted NTSC in 1966 on account of its Hispanic-American heritage, which Thailand does not have.207.224.28.114 (talk) 15:59, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I certainly owe an apology. Actually Channel 9 started as Channel 4 in 1955, but was always system B.

Anyway, we're all wrong. It was actually 1974.207.224.28.114 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

1974 is the FULL TIME broadcasting and not 1983! Channel 3 and 7 launched in 1970 and 1967 in COLOR.

วันที่ 27 พฤศจิกายน 2510 สถานีโทรทัศน์สีกองทัพบกช่อง 7 เริ่มแพร่ภาพออกอากาศในระบบสีเป็นสถานีแรกในประเทศไทย ภายใต้การดำเนินการของบริษัทกรุงเทพฯและวิทยุ จำกัด ซึ่งได้รับสัมปทานจากกองทัพบก โดยออกอากาศการถ่ายทอดการประกวดนางสาวไทยป็นรายการแรก

26 มีนาคม 2513 สถานีโทรทัศน์ไทยทีวีสีช่อง 3 เริ่มออกอากาศอย่างเป็นทางการในระบบสี ถือเป็นสถานีโทรทัศน์แห่งที่ 2 ของประเทศไทยที่ออกอากาศในระบบสี ภายใต้การดำเนินการของบริษัทบางกอก เอนเตอร์เทนเม้นท์ จำกัด

It is already said that on Nov. 27, 1967 Channel 7 is the first color TV in Thailand under operation of BBTV, which was rented from RTA, and broadcast the live telecast of Miss Thailand as the first program

On Mar. 26, 1970 Channel 3 started broadcasting in color as the 2nd TV station in Thailand to broadcast in color under operation of BEC-TERO.

And also said:

ในปี 2517 ถือเป็นปีแห่งการเปลี่ยนแปลงครั้งใหญ่ด้านเทคโนโลยีโทรทัศน์ของประเทศไทย เพราะสถานีโทรทัศน์ที่ออกอากาศในระบบขาวดำ 2 ช่องที่มีอยู่เดิมได้เปลี่ยนระบบออกอากาศมาเป็นระบบสี คือ

สถานีโทรทัศน์ไทยทีวีช่อง 4 (ระบบขาวดำ) เปลี่ยนมาเป็น สถานีโทรทัศน์ไทยทีวีสีช่อง 9 (ระบบสี)

สถานีโทรทัศน์กองทัพบกช่อง 7 (ระบบขาวดำ) เปลี่ยนมาเป็น สถานีโทรทัศน์สีกองทัพบกช่อง 5 (ระบบสี)

1974 is the important year for revolution of Thai TV technology, because 2 TV channels that used to broadcast in Black and White had changed to color broadcasting:

  • Channel 4 (Black and White) becomes Channel 9 (Color)
  • Channel 7 (Black and White) becomes Channel 5 (Color)

And you can read the full page, there's nothing said 1983.--110.49.242.11 (talk) 07:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

If you're not BenH, Why do you put revert, BenH ever single time you undid?.--110.49.242.11 (talk) 07:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

If channel 7 switched to channel 5, then how could it still be on channel 7? I didn't see anything about a split.207.224.28.114 (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

OLD channel 7 is now channel 5. And the channel 7 that exists today is the NEW channel 7. Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.49.226.113

Ridiculous Dates Showing

Afghanistan - 1951 Bahrain - 1952 Croatia - 1959 The Gambia - 1951

All of the above are also listed as PAL or SECAM - there were no color broadcasts in those systems anywhere in the world before 1966. Bahrain probably should be 1972, not 1952. As for The Gambia - their television station GRTS dates from 1995 - probably the last African nation to get television, not the first, as the article boldly suggests).

Who put these dates in? When were the changes made? Pinglis (talk) 23:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


— (talk) 17:44, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

South Vietnam

THVN only broadcast in black in white, in the FCC's standard 525-line format. [1] Color TV didn't arrive in Vietnam until 1977, after South Vietnam ceased to exist. [2] – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:46, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Argentina: Domestic colour transmissions in 1978?

Does a reliable source confirm that the 1978 world cup has been broadcast in Argentina itself in colour? TV Pública Argentina does not, to the contrary they note on Youtube uploads: "En 1978 la Argentina organizó el Campeonato Mundial de Fútbol y tomó a su cargo la transmisión del evento por televisión vía satélite, a color para el exterior." What must be considered here is the "N" standard with its 4.2 MHz video bandwith limitation, requiring a special PAL variant with a chrominance subcarrier on 3.582 MHz. Thus this was not a situation like the above discussed one in Israel (colour burst removed for entirely political reasons), they really needed the special PAL-N converters to broadcast colour video at all. 2003:45:451D:3718:D43F:B433:2622:A5C9 (talk) 22:39, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Question

Puzzled. How can Germany be the first in Europe when public transmission of the BBC in oclour in the UK came earlier? Don't excuse schemantics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.74.249 (talk) 23:36, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

SECAM in China

China used SECAM first but later switched to PAL due to SECAM's being associated with the Soviet Union. China does not use SECAM. It is highly dubious or not? HarmonZach (talk) 12:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Because of the deterioration of Sino-Soviet relations, China never used SECAM.
When China decided on a color TV standard in 1970s, they even developed a modified version of PALnote 1 note 2 (which was not used in the end) without considering using the original NTSC and SECAM.


note 1.^ 相位逐行对换的正交平衡调幅制——一种性能优良的彩色广播电视新制式[J].天津大学学报,1974(00):1-14.
( Phases exchanging by line quadrature balanced AM system -- a new color television broadcast system with excellent performance [J]. Journal of Tianjin University,1974(00):1-14. )
note 2.^ btw, there also have other systems like 1035-lines line-sequential color system and YLN signal（UV phases rotated by 45 degrees）balanced AM system etc.

Other references:
顾德仁 博学多德 仁者必寿-电子科技大学校友会 https://alumni.uestc.edu.cn/info/1019/2706_1.htm
咱成电那些事儿 | 彩电攻关大会战 https://weibo.com/p/1001603720671371914275
陈成全.我国已正式决定采用PAL制彩色电视制式[J].广播与电视技术,1981(06):55.
(CHEN Chengquan. China has officially decided to adopt PAL system [J]. Radio & TV Broadcast Engineering ,1981(06):55. )
Corchorifolius (talk) 10:01, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
China's modified version of PAL refers to PAL-D/K (PAL on systems D and K). HarmonZach (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
The "modified version of PAL" I referred to is not PAL-D/K. You can think of it as a standalone standard, just like NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, although it is extremely similar to PAL. We can call it HXZ (Pinyin's initials).
The difference between HXZ and PAL is, in HXZ, the U component's phase and V component's phase are swapped with each other in each line, not reversing the V component.
As for PAL-D/K, or PAL-I, or any 8MHz bandwidth 625-lines PAL, none of them change the color signal, just like the original PAL (-B/G).

And China was really the first country to adopt PAL-D/K, in the 70s and 80s, no other country adopted this standard lol
:) --Corchorifolius (talk) 15:31, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Yugoslavia was the first country to adopt PAL-D/K, not China? Was RTS2 the first PAL-D/K channel? HarmonZach (talk) 23:06, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
According to CCIR Rep.624-1974, Yugoslavia adopted the PAL-B/G. ---Corchorifolius (talk) 01:26, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
After China, PAL-D/K also used in the parts of the former Soviet Union such as Ukraine and the parts of Africa. HarmonZach (talk) 13:51, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

All countries possible should be in table. Black and white television experience not necessary

Timeline of the introduction of color television in countries#List of territories that never had black and white television. This part of the first sentence in that section should be removed: "are not included in the table above." The section can then be kept, since it is interesting and useful to know what countries skipped over black and white TV.

Black and white television experience should not be a requirement to be in the main table.

I came here to look for the history of the introduction of color TV. I am interested in all countries. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding historical flags is not a good idea

CD967119. Please let discussion conclude before adding historical flags back.

I don't see any agreement to add historical flags in the talk archives. I see lots of arguing about years of introduction of color TV. That makes adding flag years even more work.

This makes this table harder to maintain, and will confuse readers from those countries when they don't see their current flag. I see no benefit from adding historical flags.

I have edited a lot of tables over many years, and adding more work is usually a mistake. Flag templates are hard enough to maintain correctly without making them even more complicated. Flag templates work best when they are installed all at once, and then little else has to be done. Once it is done, new editors to the page can easily copy it for new countries. But not if they have to add years too.

See Help:Table#Adding flags and linking countries, states, etc. in lists and the following sections. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

About the former Eastern Bloc

I am going to revise these countries, if you don't mind.

also, there is a user trying to add misinfo such as Vatican introducing Color tv in the 1990s, can you give him a warning please? CD967119 (talk) 05:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Somebody is trying to claim the Vatican City finished the color tv switch by 1996.

I keep having to revert the page myself and he keeps reverting it back. can you please explain @120.29.86.15: ? Before adding them, you need to add a source, so unless you do that, It will still be a problem, CD967119 (talk) 00:01, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

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