Talk:Tibor Kozma

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Source[edit]

"Biographical pamphlet of Tibor Kozma at the Tibor Kozma Library at Indiana University" is not a source. Please visit Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources. I am reinstating the fact-tags until a verifiable source is included. Cheers --Karljoos (talk) 16:01, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. A publication of a highly respectable American University should be viewed as a reliable source. I don't see how in anyway this source could be viewed as unreliable by the guidelines laid out at WP:Sources. Further, not much has been written on Kozma so I doubt that I am going to find another source with this particular fact in it. I've had to do some significant digging just to find the content that I have found already. Kozma doesn't have any biographical entries in any music encyclopedias and is only briefly mentioned in a few opera books on the Metropolitan Opera and the history of opera in New York. Opera News marked his passing with a very brief obituary. I have also gone through an exhaustive search of The New York Times archives. So in terms of source material, this is about all there is. My general impression is that you yourself have a very limited knowledge of the subject of this article and are perhaps placing fact tags ignorantly. Singingdaisies (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Singingdaisies. The following quote is from Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources

In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. Electronic media may also be used. As a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny involved in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the evidence and arguments of a particular work, the more reliable the source is.

A brochure is, obviously, not a book, a texbook, a journal or a mainstream paper etc. Sorry, but another source that meets criteria of verifiability has to be provided. --Karljoos (talk) 16:30, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Karljoos, please read WP:Common sense. Kozma worked at the IU for the last 19 years of his life. The IU is therefore the most likely source for accurate information on this particular subject.Singingdaisies (talk) 16:35, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, but the fact that lived and worked in the States doesn't mean necessarily that he became, legally, an American. I lived 8 years in France and also many years in the States, in Spain and in England and I never changed my nationality. Maybe you’re right and he did become an American, but citing verifiable and authoritative sources is one of the pillars of Wikipedia--Karljoos (talk) 16:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. But I am not making this claim, the IU, his employer, is making this claim. There is a source. While I agree that a published book or journal article would be better, there doesn't appear to anything available that addresses this issue that is published beyond this pamphlet.Singingdaisies (talk) 16:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"A publication of a highly respectable American University should be viewed as a reliable source." - the material that a university turns out internally is generally no better than anything produced by any large organisation and should not be confused with the sort of material that the academics there might produce for peer reviewed journals. --Cameron Scott (talk) 16:52, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. But for non-controversial, easily verified facts like nationality I'd have no trouble trusting it. What concerns me more is if this pamphlet is "published" in the sense of WP:V. Is it archived somewhere, or is it available on request? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:58, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I'm not even sure what year it was published or if it is still even available at the IU. I obtained the pamphlet in the early 1990s while doing a summer graduate program at the IU. All good reasons why another source is preferable. It appears that another much better source was found by Cameron Scott so from my perspective all is resolved.Singingdaisies (talk) 17:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's all clear now. Thank you for your time.--Karljoos (talk) 17:07, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]