Talk:Thomas Modly

The "Acting" designation

As I understand it, he is not "acting" and this is an important distinction. If in formal "acting" status, is there not a time limit on that status? Instead, I have seen signature blocks that say "Performing the duties of the Secretary of the Navy." There is no time limit on this status, and so there are several senior administration people signing documents in this way. It would seem to be a new category that Wikipedia should recognize in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:5A81:2510:A0FF:6647:B921:F6BC (talk) 20:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Who updates the Wikipedia pages

I have a couple of questions about the Wikipedia pages itself. Suchi Sobel (talk) 03:33, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Crozier dismissal

Thanks to whoever undid my poor edit on the Crozier dismissal. However, the references cited indicate that Crozier was not fired for raising the alarm but for failing to properly secure the communication, ultimately leading to its being leaked to the press. The Stars & Stripes article makes that clear. Without this clarification, the article gives a false reason for his dismissal. 71.10.201.143 (talk) 19:30, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done Your concern has been addressed. NedFausa (talk) 22:22, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2020

A recording of his speech to the crew of the Theordore Roosevelt was posted online at Task and Purpose her: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-secretary-blasts-fired-aircraft-carrier-captain 98.102.110.134 (talk) 16:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:24, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I think he might be suggesting uploading the address to the article so readers can listen to it themselves. --ThirdDolphin (talk) 19:20, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done I added reference to Task & Purpose: "On April 6, Modly visted Guam and made a speech to the crew..."

References

NedFausa (talk) 21:49, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Minor Edit: "Modley" Typo

Sentence reading "When questioned about his comments..." mistakenly refers to Modly as "Modley." Dsty292 (talk) 20:50, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Yep, fixed in this edit. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Include his full transcript

Include his full transcript of what he said on the TR ship to wikiquote. Paternalistic disgraceful condescending idiot. That speech is going to set the standard of US navy. The mission statement. 202.9.46.238 (talk) 12:11, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done I added reference to Task & Purpose, which includes transcript and audio: "On April 6, Modly visted Guam and made a speech to the crew..."

References

NedFausa (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2020

Change: "He was nominated to become Navy Undersecretary by President Donald Trump in September 2017" to: "He was nominated to become Navy Undersecretary by President Donald Trump in September 2019". M. Almehairbi (talk) 13:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done Date is correct per cited source. NedFausa (talk) 15:46, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Resignation

CNN is reporting that he has submitted his resignation on 4/7/20 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html?__twitter_impression=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:F92:1D20:BDDB:746F:8D6C:8FF8 (talk) 19:26, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference. I have added it to the article. -- MelanieN (talk) 19:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Where to put reference citations?

User:NedFausa and I have been disagreeing about where to put a citation. He likes to put the reference in the middle of a phrase, such as after the word “letter” if it describes a letter, or after the word “speech” if it describes a speech. We are both citing WP:CITEFOOT, which says If a word or phrase is particularly contentious, an inline citation may be added next to that word or phrase within the sentence, but it is usually sufficient to add the citation to the end of the clause, sentence, or paragraph, so long as it's clear which source supports which part of the text. My experience, and my understanding of WP:CITEFOOT, is that we generally put a citation at the end of the relevant sentence, unless it is needed to justify the use of a particularly controversial (“contentious”) word. There is nothing controversial about the words “speech” or “letter,” and IMO the reference should be cited at the end of the sentence. In particularly, these two sentences contain direct quotes, and we are supposed to cite the source of a quote immediately after it. That doesn’t happen if the source is cited in the middle of the sentence somewhere, leaving the quote bare. Here is his version:

Modly visited Guam on April 6 and made a speech to the crew over the Theodore Roosevelt′s PA system, castigating Crozier as "too naive or too stupid" to be in command of a ship. While giving the speech, Modly was heckled by some of the sailors, one of whom described him as "whiny, upset, irritated, [and] condescending.”

Here is my version:

On April 6, Modly visited Guam and made a speech to the crew over the Theodore Roosevelt′s PA system, castigating Crozier as "too naive or too stupid" to be in command of a ship. While giving the speech, Modly was heckled by some of the sailors, one of whom described him as "whiny, upset, irritated, [and] condescending."

Sources

Which should we use? -- MelanieN (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Please note two preceding requests at this talk page—here and here—to include the transcript of Modly's speech. Those requests appeared not because our reference to Task & Purpose, which includes both transcript and audio, was not present, but because readers overlooked it at the end of the sentence. I have not claimed that the word "speech" is contentious; rather, the speech itself is contentious. Pinpointing our reference to it that includes the transcript is helpful to readers and does not violate Wikipedia policy. NedFausa (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

And I can equally well imagine someone adding a "citation needed" tag to the two apparently uncited quotes at the end of sentences. I will wait to hear what others have to say. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:18, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Our reference following the phrase "heckled by some of the sailors" applies to "too naive or too stupid" as well. If you think that's confusing, we can easily move that reference to the end of the sentence that concludes "in command of a ship." NedFausa (talk) 20:23, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I would place the references at the end of the sentences, per MelanieN's description, as long as the source supports each clause of the sentence. Placed mid-sentence, they make it look like the second part of the sentence is unreferenced.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, this has been settled, I trust to everyone's satisfaction. I expanded the quote and moved one of the two references to the end of the sentence to support the quote. -- MelanieN (talk) 21:01, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

The lead should cover Modly's attack on Crozier and trip to Guam

That is what this person is most notable for, both for his entire biography and his tenure as Secretary of the Navy. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done. NedFausa (talk) 22:42, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Add more to early life section

ADD: After World War II, Modly’s parents escaped Hungary as his father was reluctant to join the communist party. Born in 1960, Modly was raised in Cleveland, Ohio and graduated from Shaker Heights High School in 1979. In 1983, Modly graduated with a Bachelor of Science from the U.S. Naval Academy. Modly then continued his education and graduated from Georgetown University with a Master of Arts degree in Government & International Relations in 1984. Upon graduation, Modly began flight school and went on to attend Harvard Business School, earning a Master’s in Business Administration in 1992.

REASON: This gives more context to Modly's early life, as it accurately represents his parents, early life, and education. Coffeebar20 (talk) 19:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

References

Add more to the beginning of the career section

ADD: After graduating from the U.S. Naval Academy, Modly served seven years in the U.S. Navy. During his tenure year had served as a UH-1N Huey Helicopter pilot, a Command Helicopter and Legal Officer for the USS Nassau LHA-4, and an Assistant Professor of Political Science at the U.S. Air Force Academy.

In 1990, Modly left active duty to pursue a career in the private sector. He served several leadership positions at Iconixx, Oxford Associates, UNC Inc., and PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), with years of experience in the aviation support and IT services industries performing corporate strategy and mergers and acquisitions. At PwC, Modly served as a managing director for the global government and public services sector and as the Global Government Defense Network Leader. As he led PwC’s NATO account and economic development teams for the U.S., he focused on U.S. stabilization efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. As the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Financial Management., Modly led transformational business initiatives across the Department of Defense (DoD) and the NATO Reform Agenda. Modly later served as the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Financial Management and he was the first executive director of the Defense Business Board, established in 2001.

REASON: This gives more context to Modly's career in the private sector before his leadership positions in the U.S. Navy. Coffeebar20 (talk) 19:41, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

• • Some of the info has been added to the article; however, some of the info above is not in the references provided (e.g. "He served several leadership positions at Iconixx, Oxford Associates") or is too closely paraphrased from the original. Other information has vague puffery ("Modly led transformational business initiatives") that should be removed; for example, specific business initiatives should be mentioned. Please re-write and make changes accordingly and this info can be added. Spencer^T•C 21:16, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Add a "United States Under Secretary of the Navy" header in the career section

ADD: Modly was nominated as Under Secretary of the Navy by President Donald Trump in September 2017 and was sworn in as the 33rd Under Secretary of the Navy on December 4, 2017. He also served as Chief Management Officer and Chief Information Officer for the Department of the Navy.

During Modly’s tenure, he took several initiatives to improve the Department of the Navy’s business operations, which included creating the Office of the Chief Management Officer and the Department’s first Business Operations Plan.

Modly also served as the Chairman of the Department of Navy’s Education for Seapower (E4S) Study, where he performed a review of education in the Department of Navy.

REASON: This gives more context as to what Modly did during his tenure as the Under Secretary of the U.S. Navy. Coffeebar20 (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

• • Looks like most of this info has already been added to the article. The E4S info is not in the article; where should this be added? Spencer^T•C 21:18, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Add more under the "United States Secretary of the Navy" subsection in the career section

ADD: Modly served as the Acting Secretary of the Navy from November 25, 2019, until April 7, 2020, following the firing of Secretary of the Navy Richard V. Spencer.

As Acting Secretary of the Navy, Modly was an advocate for building a larger fleet beyond the 355 ship goal established by Congress. He referred to this goal as “355 Plus” because it would include unmanned vessels along with a larger number of smaller and more distributed surface ships. Modly stated that “with less than half of the Navy we had 30 years ago, but arguably three times the responsibility, and growing, we must reassert a decisive naval force and its relationship to American prosperity. Without consistent funding streams, a revitalized defense-industrial base, and a compelling naval narrative for our citizens, we may be under-resourced to defend the nation’s extensive maritime interests.”

In January of 2020, Acting Secretary Modly made the historic decision to name an aircraft carrier after Doris Miller, an African American enlisted sailor who earned the Navy Cross for heroic actions at Pearl Harbor, and who later lost his life in combat. In doing so, Modly broke with tradition by not naming such ships after significant political figures. Doris “Dorie” Miller was the first African American to be awarded the Navy Cross after saving his shipmates lives during the Pearl Harbor attack on December 7, 1941. His ship sank two years later, where Miller honorably gave his life for his country. At the USS Doris Miller (CVN 81) Naming Ceremony on January 20, 2020, Acting Secretary Modly stated in his speech, “Dorie Miller stood for everything that is good about our nation. His story deserves to be remembered and repeated wherever our people continue to stand the watch today.” The USS Doris Miller (CVN 81) will be commissioned in 2032. Modly also named two of the Navy’s newest submarines after two famous battleships that were lost at Pearl Harbor, the USS Arizona and the USS Oklahoma.

As Acting Secretary of the Navy, Modly was best known for the weekly messages that he wrote to the entire Department. He called these messages “Vectors”. His final vector, Vector 19, detailed the rationale for his resignation, stating “The events of the last several weeks with respect to my decision to relieve the CO of the USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT indicate to me that we have some work to do in this regard, so you must pick up the mantle and fix this. No person should ever be afraid of bringing up issues of concern to their immediate superiors through an established and well-understood path that respects both the chain of command and our own individual duty to fulfill our oaths. And, no commander should ever resent or discourage anyone senior in their chain of command from reaching down to gain better situational awareness from the people closest to the problem. That being said, there is a proper, courteous, and respectful way to do this that we must adhere to, especially during times of crisis.”

REASON: This gives more context to the initiatives he had during his tenure as the Acting Secretary of the U.S. Navy. Coffeebar20 (talk) 16:21, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Partially implemented Added info from the first paragraph. Added info from the second paragraph without the quote (should be summarized for an article like this). Info from the third paragraph ("Modly made the historic decision to name an aircraft carrier after Doris Miller") is not in the ref provided, so was not added. Quotes about the ceremony aren't important to Modly's career and weren't added. Info from the 4th paragraph (such as "Modly was best known for the weekly messages that he wrote to the entire Department.") is not substantiated by the ref given and was not added; other quotes are relatively meaningless fluff that doesn't add to the detail of Modly's career and wasn't added at this point. Spencer^T•C 21:12, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Make changes to the "USS Theodore Roosevelt" subsection in the career section

Remove the paragraph: "In other parts of Modly's speech, he told the sailors: "you're not required to love" Crozier, and that the only thing they should expect from their leaders is to "treat you fairly and put the mission of the ship first". Modly also used his speech to criticize the media, future Democratic Nominee Joe Biden, and China."

REASON: This is not objectively true. Coffeebar20 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

• This is verified in the references cited. Spencer^T•C 20:59, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Remove the sentence: "While giving the speech, which The New York Times described as a "tirade", Modly was heckled by some of the sailors. Modly spent 30 minutes on the ship and left; the round trip taken by Modly took 50 hours and was estimated to have cost taxpayers more than $243,000."

REASON: This does not come from high-quality sources and is a libelous statement. Coffeebar20 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

• The cited information appears in multiple reliable published sources. Could you provide additional information to substantiate this request? Spencer^T•C 20:59, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

ADD: Modly described the situation on the U.S. Naval Institute podcast, released on February 24, 2021. During the podcast, Modly said: “I knew it was time for me to move on and I didn’t want the TR situation, the COVID situation, and the Captain Crozier situation to dominate the Navy any more and so I figured if I had stayed there it would. It would have lingered for more time and it would have distracted the Navy from what it needed to do. Like I said, I just didn’t want to put anyone else in the chain of command in the center of that, and that’s why I made the decision [to resign].”

REASON: To add context and maintain a NPOV within the article. Coffeebar20 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

•  Done Shortened the quote slightly and added it in.

ADD: In a commentary article published by Modly in the U.S. Naval Institute, Modly stated: “The mistakes I made were within the execution of those broad decisions. Sometimes those items of execution really matter, but if they are not done perfectly, we cannot allow them to paralyze and deter us from doing the right thing when called to do so in the future. In the end, the biggest casualty of the decisions I made regarding the Theodore Roosevelt was my tenure as Acting Secretary. From my perspective, that was a small price to pay if the broader message I tried to convey to the crew about love, duty, and courage sinks in with our entire Navy over time.”

REASON: To add context and maintain a NPOV within the article. Coffeebar20 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

• Where are you requesting this be put in the article? It's not clear to me where this would fit in. Spencer^T•C 21:05, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

ADD: In June 2020, ADM R. Burke, Chief of Naval Operations at the Department of the Navy, released the results of his investigation concerning the chain of command actions with regard to COVID-19 onboard USS Theodore Roosevelt. As a review of the investigation results, Burke determined that “reassigning CAPT Crozier as the Commanding Officer (CO) of the USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT (CVN 71) is not in the best interest of Navy.” Burke continues his preliminary statement, stating, “It is clear to me following this investigation, CAPT Crozier did not act according to the standards I expect of our commanding officers-to adapt in the face of adversity, exercise ingenuity and creativity in crisis, demonstrate resilience, communicate effectively up the chain of command, and to take bold and appropriate action early and often. His actions and inactions in the timeframe before sending the email fell well short of what I expect from our officers in command.”

REASON: To add context and maintain a NPOV within the article. Coffeebar20 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

•  Done Added by a separate user; however, this information is more fit to be added to COVID-19 pandemic on USS Theodore Roosevelt where it directly relates to that article rather than here, so I will move that over there. Spencer^T•C 20:59, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

References