Talk:The Moon is made of green cheese

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Keynes[edit]

In Keynes' principal work "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money" one finds in Chapter XVII a section "Unemployment develops, that is to say, because people want the moon; [..] There is no remedy but to persuade the public that green cheese is practically the same thing and to have a green cheese factory (i.e. a central bank) under public control." Maybe it is worth to be mentioned? 92.230.59.5 (talk) 18:22, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gothamite Moonrakers[edit]

"The characterization is also common in stories of gothamites, including the Moonrakers of Wiltshire."

In what way were the Moonrakers of Wiltshire Gothamites? I would have thought they were thoroughly rural people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.64.44.200 (talk) 01:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See Gothamist and Gotham City. —82.36.30.173 (talk) 17:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Retort[edit]

The text mentions it as statement and metaphor, but, is it used as rhetorical retort? In response to some assumption or theory with the purpose of prompting cogitation and re-think. Perhaps more of a rebuke. Signed JohnsonL623 (talk) 03:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

cp?[edit]

There was never an actual historical popular belief that the Moon is made of green cheese (cp. the myth of the Flat Earth)

Typo for "cf"? Or is "cp" a valid abbreviation that I haven't come across? 2.25.134.189 (talk) 00:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:54, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

'See also' section[edit]

@7&6=thirteen: What did you mean by "Article ratings" in the edit summary when you added back the 'see also' links that I had removed earlier that year? Amalthea 09:38, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At the time there were article ratings by readers, and they had ranked for this article. That feature has disappeared. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:52, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Amateur vs. the Astronomer[edit]

User:Jnc/Astronomer vs Amateur good discussion and use of The Moon is made of green cheese in Wikipedia. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:30, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Page move[edit]

I hope you agree that now the article is about all sorts of cheese the moon made of, therefore I made the title generic. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:45, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't. You apparently missed the beginning point of the article. And you moved this unilaterally, without bothering to notify anyone. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And you missed the ending point of the article life. The current text is no longer about green cheese. Staszek Lem (talk) 01:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that we should cover folklore in all cultures (and have been expanding in that area), I think it makes sense to continue to keep this under the common title from English.--Pharos (talk) 00:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This article initially was made of green cheese. Either you use the changed title or move all non-green non-English cheese into a different article. By the way, why do you think that "green cheese" is a common title? Google search does not confirm this. Staszek Lem (talk) 01:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I started this article myself a few years ago, it was never about cheese that is the color green (which wasn't even a part of the English folklore). It's about a family of myths, and this being the English Wikipedia, it's just for convenience under the proper phrase most common in the English-speaking world, similar to Little Red Riding Hood.--Pharos (talk) 02:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, for naming, one should properly compare Moon+"made of cheese" with Moon+"made of green cheese" in Google Books, and the latter is far more common. (A web search gives a different result, but those are mostly ephemeral, non-RS sources.)--Pharos (talk) 12:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Attribution[edit]

Citation copied from British television Apollo 11 coverage to The Moon is made of green cheese. See former page's edit history for credits. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:52, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Text and refs copied form Myth of the flat earth to The Moon is made of green cheese. See former article's history for list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notes and references[edit]

From the history of the article:

  • 11:20, 5 May 2017‎ 7&6=thirteen (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (19,811 bytes) (+56)‎ . . (format)
  • 11:50, 5 May 2017‎ PBS (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (19,755 bytes) (-56)‎ . . (Undid revision 778816247 by 7&6=thirteen In this case the notes section does not contain any references.) (undo)

@user:7&6=thirteen Why include notes under a parent section called references when the notes are not footnotes containing references? -- PBS (talk) 11:57, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:03, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sentence at the end of "Fable" section[edit]

What does the following mean?

The use of the words "The moon is made of green cheese" in a passive sentence creates a dilemma of syntax, depending upon whether it is considered to be a "phrase" and its larger context.

If it's just about the grammar (in which case I still don't get it), then is it relevant?--Ermenrich (talk) 20:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to respond to your concern. The thought comes from: Anderson, Stephen R. (30 May 2006). Doctor Dolittle's Delusion: Animals and the Uniqueness of Human Language. New Haven, Connecticut: Yale University Press. p. 206. ISBN 9780300115253.
Unfortunately, we have used up our Google access to that book. So I can't (easily) use this source to clarify the meaning.
Maybe somebody else has access? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
From what I can see of the book online (pages 205+207, but not 206), it appears to just be a nonsensical placeholder sentence, like other examples that are analyzed to mean different things in different contexts. I think this should probably be removed.--Pharos (talk) 21:23, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"See also" section, again[edit]

(Moving the disagreement here rather than edit-warring.) 7&6=thirteen, can you explain why you think that the huge "see also" section that we currently have is beneficial to our readers or to anyone else? I'm clearly not the only one who believes it needs to be considerably reduced; another user has tagged the section as needing attention earlier this year, and there's a section above on the talk page where another user tried to massively reduce the section, but you reverted their change. If you wish to argue over precisely which links should be contained, then I'm certainly not wed to the exact change that I made, but I don't see how the status quo is beneficial. It contains repeats of links in the body (explicitly mentioned as a bad idea in MOS:NOTSEEALSO) (eg Duck Tales), a blatant untruth (the idea that the Montes Pyrenaeus are named after a cheese rather than both the mountains and the cheese being named for the Pyrenees Mountains on earth), and links where no connection is apparent (The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress? Face value? Any of the entries about logic or philosophy?). At the very least, can we try to whittle away some of the more egregious entries? Lowercaserho (talk) 20:21, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody said that these links are spot on.
I think that these links help readers find relevant information. It is better to err on the side of including too much of the irrelevant, rather than too little of the relevant. Our readers are fully capable of making those judgments. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:39, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whereas I think that having too much irrelevant information makes it harder to find the relevant parts, and think it's better to err towards removing too much from this sort of section rather than too little. But, realistically speaking, debating ideology isn't going to get us anywhere; this type of disagreement is as old as Wikipedia itself and you and I aren't going to suddenly come up with a brilliant solution on a random talk page. Which means we're left with trying to come up with a compromise that both of us can live with, even if it isn't either of our first choices. I mentioned some of the linked articles that are the ones I considered most inappropriate. Would you be amenable to removing those ones at least? Lowercaserho (talk) 07:03, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@7&6=thirteen: Can I get your input on this, please? I'm still hoping we can reach a compromise position that we both find acceptable. Lowercaserho (talk) 16:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your concerns. What do you propose? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@7&6=thirteen: First, and most importantly, I think we should remove the link to Montes Pyrenaeus, since the factoid there is simply untrue (the mountains and the cheese both being named for the Pyrenees mountains on earth[1]). Next, I want to remove the links to DuckTales (video game) and O-Solar Meow, since they're both already linked in the article body, and repeating them is expressly recommended against in MOS:NOTSEEALSO. Beyond that, there are a lot of entries where I just cannot see the connection to this article. These are: Amalthea (moon), List of The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy episodes, Normative statement, On the Moon, Paradoxes of material implication, Positive statement, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, The Mouse that Jack Built. I would suggest that either these be removed entirely or – if there is some connection that I'm not seeing – you add a brief explanatory note explaining how they are connected. Lowercaserho (talk) 16:58, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have no enthusiasm for edit warring over this.
I can live with your suggestions. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:12, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. I've gone ahead and made the change. Lowercaserho (talk) 19:57, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Young cheese" theory[edit]

A sentence in the article as it currently stands says, "The phrase "green cheese" in this proverb simply refers to a young cheese ..., though modern people may interpret the color reference literally.[1]" The footnote directs the reader (without a link, irritatingly) to consult Merriam-Webster's definition for "green cheese". Doing so, one finds three definitions given: 1) young cheese, 2) "cheese (as sapsago) having a green color", 3) "cheese made of whey or skim milk". The dictionary does not presume to state which of the three definitions is the referent of the proverb, so it does not support the assertion of the article, which is mere speculation (in point of fact, it appears to me that this is the least likely of the three to have been applied to the moon, which, having been around for as long as humanity has been there to observe it, is obviously is not made of young anything). Later, the article references a "Straight Dope" article that, more appropriately, notes "young cheese" as a possibility, not a certainty, for the intended meaning. I will edit the earlier sentence accordingly. JudahH (talk) 18:03, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The metaphor is not that the moon is "young", far from it. It is that the color of the moon is pale, resembling a young cheese more than an aged one with a deeper color. The somewhat misleading phrase "green cheese" is unique to English, and other languages with similar folklore and expressions never speak of a green color. --Pharos (talk) 17:55, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is still speculation. The sources given in the article do not support anything more than "maybe". As for other languages, can you attest to any that use an expression meaning "young cheese" in particular (not merely cheese)? If so, I agree that would constitute evidence that the word "green" means "young" in this expression. JudahH (talk) 21:04, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2023[edit]

From the book by Reginald Scot- the discovery of witchcraft dated 1584 reference is made to the moon being made of green cheese (in a satirical sense) 2A00:23C5:E2C6:F701:D4DE:A829:5B23:6BAE (talk) 12:32, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Spintendo  03:11, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2023[edit]

Remove the AI-generated image from the header section. It is immaterial to the article and there are existing illustrations that could be used in its place, and as this is common practice it could be confused for an original illustration. 124.149.185.181 (talk) 13:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done in the absence of a replacement illustration. I agree that an existing illustration would be better than an AI one, but we don't have an existing illustration! An AI drawing is better than nothing.
Do you know of an illustration that's in the public domain? The Commons category for the fox story is at commons:Category:The Fox and the Wolf but I'm not seeing any which have a clear view of the moon. --Belbury (talk) 13:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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