Talk:Terrorism in Russia

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Red Terror[edit]

Red Terror corresponds exactly to the modern definition of terrorism. According to most common definition, "Terrorism, in the modern sense,[2] is violence against civilians to achieve political or ideological objectives by creating fear.[3] (see terrorism). Bolsheviks did exactly that: they took hostages (exactly as any modern-day terrorists) and executed them. Their goal was to incite fear, and they openly proclaimed that, from Lenin to Latsis.

Most important, this is recognized by historians and theoreticians, such as Karl Kautsky, to name only one example. He said: "Among the phenomena for which Bolshevism has been responsible, Terrorism, which begins with the abolition of every form of freedom of the Press, and ends in a system of wholesale execution, is certainly the most striking and the most repellent of all."[1]. He was talking about Red terror. Kautsky also said: "It is, in fact, a widely spread idea that Terrorism belongs to the very essence of revolution, and that whoever wants a revolution must somehow come to some sort of terms with terrorism. As proof of this assertion, over and over again the great French Revolution has been cited."" (Chapter 1 of the same book).

If you want to dispute this, please provide alternative reliable sources claiming that "Red Terror" was not terrorism.Biophys (talk) 01:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Kautsky called it "terrorism" does not mean it falls under the definition of terrrorism in modern sense. At present it constitutes WP:SYN and also WP:UNDUE. You need to provide more sources to prove that "red terror" was "terrorism" in the modern sense of terrorism. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 02:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To the contrary, all your statements so far are OR. I have provided a scholarly source by a notable historian of Bolshevik movement, Karl Kautsky who states that Red Terror was terrorism. Hence this is not OR. Please provide at least one equally reliable scholarly source that tells Red Terror was not terrorism.Biophys (talk) 02:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:UNDUE. You need to provide mainstream sources which say red terror was terrorism in modern sense. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 02:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What "UNDUE" are you talking about? I have provided a mainstream reliable source. You so far provided none.Biophys (talk) 02:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's collect more sources[edit]

Some sources about terrorism in Russia [1]

  1. ^ Ion Mihai Pacepa, A Terrorist State in the G8?, Human Events, December 3, 2007

Biophys (talk) 03:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great Terror in the Soviet Union was state terrorism according to "quite a few historical studies [2]. Biophys (talk) 04:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mainstream definition: "Terrorism is the "terror" by state"[edit]

The earliest use of term "terrorism" identified by the Oxford English Dictionary is a 1795 reference to what the author described as the "reign of terrorism" in France.[1] During that part of the French revolutionary period that is now known as the Reign of Terror, or simply The Terror, the Jacobins and other factions used the apparatus of the state to execute and cow political opponents. The Oxford English Dictionary still has a definition of terrorism as "Government by intimidation carried out by the party in power in France between 1789-1794".[2].

According to the Britannica Concise terrorism is "systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective".[3] According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, State terrorism, also known as Establishment Terrorism, is "employed by governments—or more often by factions within governments—against that government's citizens, against factions within the government, or against foreign governments or groups. This type of terrorism is very common but difficult to identify, mainly because the state's support is always clandestine."[4]. Biophys (talk) 04:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Oxford English Dictionary 2nd Edition, CD Version 3, 2002, Oxford University Press
  2. ^ Jenny Teichman (1989). "How to define terrorism". Philosophy. 64 (250): 505-517. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Conspiracy theories dominate[edit]

Why do conspiracy theories dominate half the article? Unsubstantiated claims by people like Litvinenko shouldn't even be here. He was a complete nut, and even blamed the FSB for the London bombings in 2005. In the "Other notable attacks" section, instead of learning anything at all about other notable terrorist attacks, the entire paragraph is made up of conspiracies without mentioning any facts whatsoever. This article is garbage. LokiiT (talk) 17:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Another Augean stables of rather talentless russophobia. Since no Herculeses so far, Suppose it's worth deleting and further complete rewriting.--213.208.170.194 (talk) 09:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion[edit]

Beslan[edit]

How does this article not mention Beslan? 192.34.134.55 (talk) 02:16, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reference I deleted - added back to article because...[edit]

While I couldn't find the article, the article does exist.

The journalist responded that he did indeed write the article but it's not available online.

                Hi Level_C,
                I'm happy to help.
                I did indeed write that article, as noted below for full bibliographic reference:

                Click for information about this source

                One official's 'refugee' is another's 'terrorist': IRB criticized for dissimilar rulings on similar cases
                National Post
                Wed Jan 17 2007
                Page: A1
                Section: News
                Byline: Adrian Humphreys
                Source: National Post
                Two members of the same foreign organization who applied for refugee status in Canada have received dramatically different judgments: One was declared a member of a terrorist group, the other accepted as a legitimate refugee.


                 The reason it was difficult to find is that in years past, the Post did not keep all articles online.
                 Regards,
                 Adrian Humphreys
                 Senior reporter
                 National Post

                 Sent from my iPad

Level C (talk) 04:10, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Original research[edit]

The following passage from the section "Accusations of terrorism" is original research:

"Meeting of Sergey Lavrov in October 2018 during peace talks with the representative of Taliban in Moscow caused controversies in Russia as the leadership frequently highlighted that it "does not negotiate with terrorist" while the official media reporting about the talks had to annotate each mention of "Taliban" with a legally required note that the organization is considered terrorist and forbidden on the territory of Russian federation.
References:
"Лавров принял в Москве террористов на конференции по Афганистану". The Insider (in Russian). 2018-11-09. Retrieved 2018-11-11.
"Лавров заявил о важности участия талибов* во встрече по Афганистану". РИА Новости (in Russian). 2018-11-09. Retrieved 2018-11-11."

It might have been a valid accusation/topic for a discussion, were it properly referenced. However, the sources cited do not mention any controversy. To keep the passage in the article you would need a separate source claiming that those sources have indeed indicated a controversy. Hope it won't be too hard to get!

So far I'm removing the said passage from the article.

--Document hippo (talk) 10:09, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SYNTH[edit]

Currently the section "Accusations of terrorism" contains the following passage:

"International and Russian journalists accused the FSB of staging many terrorism acts, such as a market-place bombing in the city of Astrakhan in 2001, bus-stop bombings in the city of Voronezh, and the blowing up the Moscow-Grozny train,[21][22] whereas innocent people were convicted or killed."

Refs 21 and 22 are articles in Novaya Gazeta by Yulia Latynina and Vyacheslav Izmailov.

Latynina has criticized Russian security services for staging fake terrorist attacks (with minimal casualties) to report false successes in solving those cases, instead of investigating the actual terrorist attacks.

Vyacheslav Izmailov has criticized Russian security services for using torture against suspect terrorists, which in his opinion hampers genuine investigations.

That's WP:SYNTH, those claims should be considered in separate passages.

--Document hippo (talk) 10:42, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Table[edit]

I removed the table with statistics of terrorist incidents. After following the links, it is completely unclear how these data have been derived. At the same time, the data are obviously incorrect: the table claimed to be zero incidents in 1977. My very best wishes (talk) 00:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

<4.3 More recent attacks>[edit]

the list ends with 2017. More in the Russian Federation there were no custom-made terror acts? Neither in Maskva nor in Crimea?

(список заканчивается 2017 годом . Больше в Российской Федерации небыло заказных терр-актов ? Ни в Маскве ни в Крыму небыло ? )15:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.180.59 (talk)


1973 bombing of Lenin's Mausoleum[edit]

What do we know about the supposed 1 September 1973 bomb attack? I understand three people (including the bomber) were killed. --PaulinSaudi (talk) 11:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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