Talk:Substitute Teacher (Key & Peele)

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 02:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by ElijahPepe (talk). Self-nominated at 18:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Substitute Teacher (Key & Peele); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: ElijahPepe, great work. Thank you for creating this much-needed article on a cultural landmark of the 21st century. I had to check a few times that this article didn't already exist - I struggled to believe it. It is very well written and very well sourced. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:49, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onceinawhile and ElijahPepe: In the article I am not sure the youtube video should be where it is per MOS:LAYOUT. Also I think we need to attribute the quotes in the hook. Bruxton (talk) 22:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure where you're getting either from. The placement of the videos is fine and the quote has been attributed. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:08, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t mind re MOS:LAYOUT, but it isn’t a requirement for DYK. The article is up for GA, so should be covered there.
On the quote, it is inline attributed in the article. I don’t think it needs to be inline attributed in the hook, partly because it encourages clicks, but mainly because the statement is “sky is blue”, as most Key&Peele sketches are about this topic. What we could do is reword, remove the quotation marks, and replace the dual identity with a link to the article Double consciousness. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:12, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Onceinawhile and ElijahPepe: I mentioned MOS:LAYOUT as FYI. But the quotation in the hook is from the podcast Code Switch. Maybe @Theleekycauldron: can help? Bruxton (talk) 14:35, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(here by request) NPR is reliable for its opinion, and constitutes due weight, but the hook will need to be attributed :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 21:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here is an option...
@Onceinawhile and ElijahPepe: What do you both think? Bruxton (talk) 13:24, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK here. Onceinawhile (talk) 15:04, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think this hook could use more work. Even within the confines of DYKFICTION, we have secondary analysis of some of the sketch's distinctive quotes:
Qin also highlights the word choice used by Garvey, contrasting his slang with his use of words such as "insubordinate and churlish", "mischievous and deceitful", and "chicanerous and deplorable", the lattermost use of "chicanery" being an attempt to use parallelism.

This is an interesting and famous sketch, but the current hook doesn't even clearly express what it is. Could we experiment with something off the analysis of the sketch's language? Vaticidalprophet 04:37, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I also gotta scratch my head at the submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Sommer Ray as a QPQ. I know this is annoying, since we assume in good faith that anyone that writes a full review has done one, but not writing a full review (in this case, only the QPQ and hook were checked) can't count, especially when the article was subsequently maintenance tagged. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:31, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll also throw in my suggestion, the result of workshopping between myself, Vati, and Elijah at different times:
  • ALT1: ... that the Key & Peele sketch "Substitute Teacher" juxtaposes language like "insubordinate and churlish" with slang?
Given that it's a secondary interpretation of the plot, I think it clears the DYKFICTION bar. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Onceinawhile: As the original reviewer, can you evaluate the new ALT hooks above? Z1720 (talk) 18:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not a fan of ALT1, as it is quite tangential to the topic. How about:
  • ALT2: …that the Key & Peele sketch "Substitute Teacher" has been analyzed for its racial commentary and educational insight?
I think it will surprise readers in a positive way. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@ElijahPepe: Thoughts on ALT2? Z1720 (talk) 17:22, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
for ALT2 above. Z1720 (talk) 20:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2a: …that the Key & Peele sketch "Substitute Teacher" was analyzed for its racial commentary and educational insight?
  • ALT2 sourced, short enough, and interesting. Good to go.--Launchballer 14:24, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

Passed. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 07:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Substitute Teacher (Key & Peele)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: PCN02WPS (talk · contribs) 04:49, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


A favorite of mine. Happy to review this - if you have any interest in returning the favor I have a list of unreviewed nominations here. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 04:49, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead and infobox

  • This is very pedantic, but the image caption in the infobox strikes me as being potentially very slightly incorrect if the character's actual name is "Aaron" and not "A-a-ron"
  • "While taking roll, Garvey states the name of each person in the class" → could potentially give off the impression that he gets through everybody's name, which he does not
  • View count can be updated from YouTube

Plot

  • I'm not sure if this is an actionable point or just a thought, since I'm not sure what to suggest instead, but the formatting for Garvey's pronunciations seems a little unsatisfactory. I'm not entirely convinced throwing IPA in the middle of the paragraph is the best option:

...pronouncing each name incorrectly, including Jacqueline—pronounced /dʒeɪˈkwɛlɪn/ (jay-KWELL-in), Blake, pronounced...

It's just a little clunky and weirdly formal. Interested to hear your thoughts though I suspect your solution will probably end up being best.

Production

  • "Key used his "Gupta"—a term " → I'd move this one sentence up, to be right after the sentence about the emphasis of that first syllable
  • "early for yearbook photographs for their extracurricular clubs" → a bit repetitive with uses of "for"
  • "after telling him that he needs" → ditto with "him" and "he", which also introduce a bit of ambiguity; recommend "after telling Garvey that he needs"
  • "pronounced Jess-see-ca" → "s" in both the first and second syllable respelling seems unnecessary; it seems that this sound wouldn't span two syllables and would make more sense being classified as being part of either the first or the second

Reception and legacy

  • Update dated view count statement
  • "the fourth best" → hyphen
  • "seventh best" → as above
  • "attributed "Substitute Teacher" 's success" → to avoid the awkwardness with the quotes here, you could reword to "attributed the success of the sketch" or something similar
  • "The plot would purportedly involve" → this sounds strange in past tense

Analysis

  • "Qin also highlights" → switch to present tense from past
  • the bit about parallelism is a bit confusing without explanation of the term
  • "professor Kakali Bhattacharya reevaluates" → switch to present tense from past

That's all I have on the first read-through, take your time in getting to these! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 05:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All issues resolved. As for the pronunciations, a footnote could work, but I see no issue with the current implementation. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:45, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After looking at the pronunciations again I'd agree. The spot checks I did all look good; awesome job with the article overall. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 07:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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