Talk:Sir Hereward Wake, 13th Baronet

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 22:11, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • ... that Sir Hereward Wake, 13th Baronet, preserved the keep of Dover Castle from possible loss to fire by giving it to the Office of Works? "For some years we pressed the War Department to hand over the keep at Dover Castle. It was a store for rifles, and the constant cleaning of these weapons had so saturated the floors with oil that there was real danger of a disastrous fire. It was not till afewyears ago, when General Sir Hereward Wake was in command, and who owned some buildings of historic interest, that he decided to support our requests and it was handed over to the department and gradually it is becoming of extreme interest and well worthy of a visit." from: Earle, Sir Lionel (1935). Turn Over The Page. London: Hutchinson & Co. p. 244. Retrieved 29 May 2020.
    • ALT1:... that Major General Sir Hereward Wake played a key role in the restoration of the ironstone quarries of Northamptonshire? " his constant pressure had its part in bringing about Dr. Dalton's Act, which led to the restoration, wherever possible, of all land since worked for ironstone, as well as of several thousand acres, which had become a wilderness as a result of old ironstone workings" from:Northamptonshire Record Society (1963). "Obituary" (PDF). Northamptonshire Past and Present. 3 (4): 168.

Created/expanded by Dumelow (talk). Self-nominated at 17:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC).[reply]

  • This article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts for ALT0 are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. A QPQ has been done. @Dumelow: I have not approved ALT1 because I am confused, both with regard to the hook and the article, about what is meant by "restoration" in this context. Why should anyone be interested in restoring abandoned mineworkings/quarries except as an exhibit in an industrial heritage museum? It's the land that needs to be restored, not the ironworkings. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:56, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and stuff[edit]

I hesitate to use the phrase 'Standard Practice', because it varies so much, but most articles seem to split between References (or Citations), Sources (those used in the article), and Bibliography (Further Reading).

There's a picture of Sir Hereward here https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/use-this-image.php?mkey=mw236946; says you can download it for CC (free, or small donation).

Robinvp11 (talk) 09:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the NPG page. It allows you to download the image for use under CC BY-NC-ND, which we can't use; our content need to be usable by everyone (so not NC) and editable likewise (so not ND). I believe I found an image we can use, though. --GRuban (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Sir Hereward Wake, 13th Baronet/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 13:28, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'll take this one. Feel free to challenge any of my comments you think to be incorrect!

removed - Dumelow (talk) 14:40, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Removed, I couldn't find details of its publication and it doesn't add much - Dumelow (talk) 14:40, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lede[edit]

  • "Born into an historic noble family" - This is probably just me but I would much prefer this to read "Born into an historic and noble family"
Added "and" - Dumelow (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...commanded the 4th battalion" - to capitalise or not to capitalise the "B"? You use "4th Battalion" in the infobox; you change between capitalising battalion and not doing so throughout the article.
I've seen it both ways, decapitalised all for consistency
Done - Dumelow (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The infobox states that he died in Winchester but this is not stated or cited in the main text.
I didn't add it but have removed as couldn't find any corroboration anywhere - Dumelow (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ibid for the awarding of his CB.
Added to main text. I couldn't find the notice of award but know what date he had it by - Dumelow (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Early life[edit]

  • The reference for his date of birth only says he was born in 1876, not that it was on 11 February; the reference for his DOB in the infobox will be unnecessary if this is fixed.
Moved ref to main text. It is on the actual digital copy of his service record, not the webpage. If you have a free National Archives account you can add the record to your basket and download it (for free) - Dumelow (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hereward Wake was educated at Eton College and could speak French." - Did he learn French at Eton or is this an aside? What makes this anything but trivia?
Not really relevant, removed - Dumelow (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Boer war[edit]

  • "He was wounded in action and was mentioned in dispatches on 3 February and 9 March 1900." - was he wounded in action on the dates that he was also mentioned in dispatches? Could be clarified
Not at the same time. His record only notes that he was wounded during the war. Tried to clarify this - Dumelow (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was awarded the regimental rank" - awarded isn't the right word for this. Perhaps "advanced to" or "confirmed in"?
Thanks, changed to "advanced to" - Dumelow (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First World War[edit]

  • "held a position at the War Office." - can you expand on what this position was?
Unfortunately not, the source just says he was there - Dumelow (talk) 14:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Scratch that, found a reference that he was a liaison with The Admiralty - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • References 13 and 14 link to error pages
Oops, fixed - Dumelow (talk) 14:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you could provide some more detail on his WW1 service. For example this [1] PhD thesis highlights his work on the Supreme War Council and his role heading 'E' branch reviewing enemy strategy. It also seems his staff service was closely linked to Sir Henry Wilson which might be worth noting.
Oh, good find. I've managed to take some bits from this and find some other mentions elsewhere to greatly expand the WWI section - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Later career[edit]

Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life[edit]

  • "The Wakes lived at the ancestral home" - "The Wakes lived at their ancestral home"?
Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unless it correlates to a previous piece of information I've missed, "war department" needs linking to something.
Yes that was a bit random. Hopefully now clarified - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Wake owned a 1599 painting of Drue Drury." - seems trivial.
Agreed, removed - Dumelow (talk) 16:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference 30 links to the generic FamilySearch sign in page, needs changing or noting that an account is required etc
Tagged as (subscription required) - Dumelow (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference 32 needs a note that a Times account is required to read
Tagged as (subscription required) - Dumelow (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have for now. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 13:28, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for your review and suggestions Pickersgill-Cunliffe. That PhD thesis was especially useful. I think I've addressed everything above - Dumelow (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. Having had a further delve I've also come across this [2] which provides his roles as GSO3, GSO2, AND GSO1, and this [3] which as well as briefly mentioning Wake on occasion provides an image of Wake and Roberts' staff in 1900. Further comments:
  • "and was awarded the Distinguished Service Order on 29 November 1900." - the article states that Wake was on the staff until 1 March 1901 but this section suggests he was awarded the DSO for his work in The Orange Free State, et al, before this staff period had ended. Should be clarified and/or the chronology changed to make more sense.
Reordered this - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first mention of Amery is now before your link and introduction of him.
Fixed - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you're going to stylise "'E Branch'" as such then you should do the same for "A Branch"
Now rendered as plain text - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference 7 has an error (WOlverhampton)
Fixed - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • With all the changes made to the article I'd suggest an update to the lede to reflect this.
Good point, I've had a go - Dumelow (talk) 06:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similarly, the references section has grown considerably and I think a separate bibliography section to house your long-form book citations would not go amiss, allowing you to make the references themselves simpler in short-form.
Agreed and done - Dumelow (talk) 06:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again Pickersgill-Cunliffe, another good PhD find. I've incorporated the info from your first link but couldn't access the second (it prompts me to log in). I've got the lead and refs still to sort otherwise - Dumelow (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Happy with all the changes you have made; some of those new sources were great finds. Passing as satisfying the good article criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Pickersgill-Cunliffe for a great GA review, the article has really improved over the past few days - Dumelow (talk) 19:20, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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