Talk:Sesheshet

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Ancient Egypt Mid‑importance

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A news item involving Sesheshet was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 12 November 2008.

Wikipedia

new Pyramid at Saqqara tentatively identified as belonging to Queen Mother Sesheshet[edit]

The news on this has JUST broken today. Please see references. CyntWorkStuff (talk) 23:48, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hieroglyph[edit]

According to [1], the Egyptian word for "sistrum" was Sesheshet. That would mean the queen's name would have been rendered:

<hiero>Y8</hiero>

Right?

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to Encyclopaedia Britannica, sesheshet is a name for a type of sistrum that has a pyramid shape. As instructed (talk) 19:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article name change from Sesheshet to Seshseshet[edit]

Given that all the references provided so far refer to the queen as Queen Sesheshet, I think some reliable sources that demonstrate that her name is really Seshseshet are required before the article's name is changed. As instructed (talk) 19:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the edit summary for the move: "(cur) (last) 14:53, 13 November 2008 Alensha (Talk | contribs) m (moved Talk:Sesheshet to Talk:Seshseshet: it's spelled Seshseshet, check hieroglyph) (undo)"

It seems the move was made based on primary sources. This is contrary to wp:verifiability and wp:rs. Also the ghits for "Seshseshet" are far fewer than "Sesheshet". This is close to wp:or. I think we should go back to "Sesheshet". According to wp:rs the threshold here is verifiability not truth. Dr.K. (talk) 19:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

I will check it in my books (or if anyone else here has Dodson & Hilton's Complete Royal Families please check it; I won't be at home before 20th November). Just wanted to add that 1) most googleable sources copy the info from each others' sites, so it is only natural that if the first few ones spelled it as Sesheshet, this spelling will spread; 2) Google books have both spelling but seshseshet mainly refers to the sistrum as instrument, not the name, 3) the only place where I found her name in hieroglyphs is this one; granted, it's a different Seshseshet, but same time period (this S. was our Queen Seshseshet's granddaughter, I believe). But I will check it in books, I promise.

Also, the last time reading a hieroglyph could be classified as "original research" was before Champollion, I think :) regards, – Alensha ^talk 20:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very funny. However the dispute is not over whether the hieroglyph can be read as "Seshseshet" or not. The dispute is if we can unilaterally name the pyramid our own way, based on our research, in defiance of the majority of sources that call it otherwise. That's where the wp:or comes in. Dr.K. (talk) 22:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would have thought that that's a bit of stretch; arguably that's really where WP:NAME comes in. There has been some talk on naming conventions for Ancient Egyptian rulers of late, see: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_.28Ancient_Egyptian.29, and references to WP:NAME comes up a lot.

Yes I agree. It is a stretch. I put it forward as a debating point rather than a firm statement. I also agree that it is more under the purview of wp:naming. Dr.K. (talk) 21:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have a copy of Dodson & Hilton's The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt and will report on the spelling convention it uses later this evening. Captmondo (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great. Thanks. Dr.K. (talk) 21:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dodson & Hilton's The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt uses Sesheshet. Joyce Tyldesley in her Chronicle of the Queens of Egypt also uses the same spelling of the name as Dodson & Hilton. I looked in other possible sources dealing that cover the same period of history but could not turn up any other reference to this Queen under this or any other spelling variants. Both of these books are by respected Egyptology scholars, and have been published within the past five years.

As has already been referenced, I also note that all of the articles referenced at the end of the article use the same spelling. Alensha: can you reference your primary source that uses Seshseshet instead of Sesheshet? Captmondo (talk) 01:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the findings and the abundance of reliable sources using the spelling Sesheshet, I'm going to move the article back. This does not preclude in any way to keep discussing this. Cenarium ^Talk 04:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A prudent action. I agree. Dr.K. (talk) 07:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, she made that cure for baldness? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.21.42 (talk) 14:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sesheshet/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs images, has a few reliable sources, Tom B (talk) 13:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 13:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 05:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)