Talk:Sanctuary Housing

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Lede[edit]

Firstly, let me declare that I am working as a consultant with Sanctuary Housing, during which they have asked me to advise them on improvements to this article, As such, I am paid, and will not (other than minor technical housekeeping) be editing the article directly.

I would like to start by suggesting that the lede be modified from:

It is part of the Sanctuary Group.

to:

It is part of Sanctuary Group, which also includes other businesses such as Sanctuary Care (running more than 100 care homes), Sanctuary Students (accommodation), Sanctuary Supported Living, Sanctuary Scotland (social housing) and Sanctuary Homes (development).

A non-independent but reliable source for this is [1]. An independent, reliable source for "more than 100 care homes" is [2]. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:59, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done SpencerT•C 06:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Name change[edit]

The organisation has rebranded, as simply "Sanctuary Housing". Please note this, and change instances of the name as appropriate. A page move may also be in order - perhaps to "Sanctuary (housing association)"

Please also add "Sanctuary is a trading name of Sanctuary Housing Association, an exempt charity in England and Wales." - sourced to <ref name="CC">{{EW charity|259013}}</ref>.

(See above for my declaration of interest.) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:12, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done The name was already changed in the article. Bowler the Carmine | talk 09:35, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sustainability[edit]

I think it would be worth adding something to this effect:

Along with four other housing associations – Abri, Anchor Hanover, Home Group and Hyde – Sanctuary is part of the Greener Futures Partnership (GFP). The GFP collectively owns 300,000 homes and members collaborate to improve energy efficiency and develop decarbonisation solutions.<<ref>{{cite web |title=Major housing associations form partnership to improve energy efficiency of 300,000 homes |url=https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/major-housing-associations-form-partnership-to-improve-energy-efficiency-of-300000-homes-70348 |first=Lucie |last=Heath |website=Inside Housing |date=9 April 2021 |access-date=11 July 2023}}</ref>

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:31, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 11-JUL-2023[edit]

🔼  Clarification requested  

  1. Additional meaningfulness would be brought to the reader by having knowledge that this other association—Greener Futures Partnership—is independently notable in Wikipedia. Without such knowledge, its inclusion here runs the risk of raising issues related to WP:COATRACK and WP:CHERRY.
  2. To assuage those concerns, kindly provide the WikiLink for Greener Futures Partnership.
  3. When ready to proceed with the requested information, kindly change the {{Edit COI}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=y to |ans=n.

Regards,  Spintendo  00:54, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Spintendo: I don't think either WP:COATRACK ("a coatrack article fails to give a truthful impression of the subject") or WP:CHERRY ("a coatrack goes out of its way to find facts that support a particular bias") applies. Per WP:REDLINK it's fine to refer - or even link, if you wish - to Greener Futures Partnership without an article existing. See also WP:NODEADLINE. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No response, so request reactivated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The partnership of one company with another organization represents a point of view, in that it effectively ascribes to a partnered organization the relative value and importance of its partnership according to the partnering-company's point of view (in other words, "Because we thought it was important-enough to partner with them, that makes it important-enough to mention in the article."). If the partnered organizations were independently notable, that would add weight to the partnering company's view that their partnership was important enough to be mentioned in the article. Otherwise, adding to an article several points of view on the partnerships with non-notable organizations may upset an article's balancing aspects.[1] Thus, this reviewer's own practice is to limit the listing of partnerships to those which are independently notable in Wikipedia. Regards,  Spintendo  17:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The partnership is an independently-cited fact, not a point of view. Your "own practice" is not how Wikipedia conducts itself. I suggest we let someone else decide this. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done for now: Please establish a consensus with editors engaged in the subject area before using the {{Edit COI}} template for this proposed change. Regards,  Spintendo  06:40, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just to expand on the above, I understand your point about this information being an "independently"-cited fact. However, BALASP states that "A description of isolated events or news reports related to a subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic." That suggestion is what is guiding my review here. By definition, an edit is controversial if one editor disagrees. Since that makes this a controversial edit request, it is not recommended to use the {{Edit COI}} template.[2] Please feel free to continue searching for a broader consensus regarding these changes here on the talk page, or perhaps by using one of the other WP:CONTENTDISPUTE arenas, such as WP:3O (which I have found over the years to be very efficient). I stand ready to assist in any discussions going on from this. Once consensus is achieved and the decision is for the item to be added to the article, the template can then be reactivated for someone to make the change for you. Regards,  Spintendo  07:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request:
Personally I would've approved this. Spintendo, what exactly makes this content undue? Pigsonthewing, consider starting a new section to get consensus on your change. ––FormalDude (talk) 02:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@FormalDude: There's been no response from Spintendo. I've started a new sub-section, below, but I thought the point of WP:3O was to resolve such issues, not kick the can down the road? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The only thing that I see Spintendo being right about here is that there is no consensus for the edit given their objections. For that reason I'm not comfortable overturning their decision to deny your edit request. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Pigsonthewing: I think it's safe to add it at this point given the lack of response from Spintendo. ––FormalDude (talk) 05:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you; done, under the heading "Sustainability". I'll add it to the articles other associations, where they exist. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:21, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "WP:BALASP". Wikipedia. 16 July 2023. An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject. A description of isolated events or news reports related to a subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic.
  2. ^ "Template:Edit COI/Instructions". Wikipedia. 28 July 2023. Instructions for Reviewers: Do not insert major re-writes or controversial requests without clear consensus. When these are requested, ask the submitter to discuss the edits instead with regular contributors on the article's talk page. You can use {{edit COI|D|D}}.

Sustainability, redux[edit]

Should the above change be made? Further input is invited, per FormalDude's request that I open a new (sub-) section., Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Spintendo, you said you "stand ready to assist in any discussions going on from this." Is that still the case? If so, I'd like some clarification from you. Why does it matter if Greener Futures Partnership are themselves independently notable or not? I believe our policies only dictate that it matters that their partnership is independently-cited, which it is. There's especially no reason that Greener Futures Partnership needs to have an article to be included here, as Andy Mabbett pointed out.
I support adding the content as it passes verifiability and is independently sourced. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:56, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
 – Now done, per recent comment above. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:22, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

[Noting my previously-declared interest]

Signage at Sanctuary's Orchards Development, Worcester
Sanctuary's Orchards Development, Worcester
Sanctuary's office in Worcester

Sanctuary have kindly provided 15 new images, available in c:Category:Sanctuary Housing. I suggest we add the three above to the article, replacing the current, low-resolution image. Does anyone prefer others? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No response to the above, so adding {{Edit COI}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done I've added the pictures of the office and orchard development, not wanting to flood the article with images I've not added any more, if anyone else feels like it would be ok/other images would be better of course please feel free to change it :) Lewcm Talk to me! 22:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Johnnie Johnson Housing[edit]

[Noting my previously-declared interest]

Please add:

Johnnie Johnson Housing, which manages nearly 5000 properties in the north and midlands of England, became a subsidiary of Sanctuary in 2024, with a view to closer integration.[1]

References

  1. ^ Lloyd, Michael (4 March 2024). "Johnnie Johnson Housing joins Sanctuary as a subsidiary". Social Housing. Retrieved 3 April 2024.

or similar.

The source requires registration, but is free to view. I can email the text contents if anyone wishes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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