Talk:Samre language of Pursat

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Article title[edit]

@Kwamikagami:, I don't know anything about this language, but the current title of the article "Samre language of Siem Reap" looks a bit iffy. For one, glottolog gives it instead as "Samre language or Siem Reap" – not that I can make anything of it, but at least judging from the article's content, it doesn't appear like the language is (or has been) spoken in Siem Reap (assuming the province didn't have a wider extent in the past). – Uanfala (talk) 23:27, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I assumed the 'or' was a typo for 'of'. The glottocode has been retired, being merged with another dialect as 'Somray of Battambang–Somre of Siem Reap'. But I can write to Glottolog and ask. — kwami (talk) 00:11, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote the current form of this article. I hadn't noticed Kwami's renaming. This whole group of languages (the Chong subgroup of the Pearic languages) can be very confusing indeed. The early research, which in some cases is still all we have, uses Somre, Somray, Somreh, Chong, Jong, Ksong, etc. to describe various dialects and separate languages, with each author using different terms for the same dialect or the same term for different dialects or even distinct languages! After the upheaval and isolation caused by the Cambodian Civil War, the puzzle of which language a source is describing got even harder to figure out. As for this language, the sources are describing a language that was originally spoken in Pursat Province, Cambodia. During/after the war, the few remaining speakers crossed the border into Trat Province, Thailand. The speakers call it "Samre", but the local Thais mistake it for Chong.

TLDR: This article describes what, in our Pearic languages article, we have listed as "Samre of Pursat" under "Central Chong". The same name also appears under "classification" in the Chong language article. It is different from Samre of Siem Reap, which is (was?) a Northern Chong language. If we must assign a glottolog code, the closest would probably be cent2314, although I wouldn't rename the article to Central Chong since the native speakers and the research all refer to it simply as Somre and take pains to distinguish it from Chong proper, using "Somre of Pursat" when clarification is needed.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 01:06, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@WilliamThweatt: Thanks, William. I'm not familiar with the sources. I'd appreciate your correction of whatever I got wrong.

a) Yes, 'or' was a typo on Glotto. Will probably be corrected now I've pointed it out.

b) Evidently I misidentified the language, and mis-linked it from the Pearic page. William, I'll try to clean things up, if you're too busy to, e.g. by moving this article to 'Samre of Pursat'. But please let me know if I get it wrong again. — kwami (talk) 05:33, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, this article is now linked from Central Chong instead of Northern Chong. However, I left the ISO and Glotto codes on N.Chong alone until you confirm what they should be. I've also left the codes on this page as iso3=sxm and glotto=samr1245 'Samre of Siem Reap', since I don't know if Harald named that node correctly. The codes can be moved wherever you think best. If there is no ISO or glotto code for this lect, then we can simply enter 'none' in the info box.

The languages I messed with just now are this one, Pearic languages, Chong language and Somray language. When I created stubs for these langs a few years ago, I almost pulled names out of a hat. I'll be happy to move any of them to wherever you think is best, split what our Pearic table lists as Central Chong and Western Chong into two articles, etc., if you don't have the time. Whatever. — kwami (talk) 05:44, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

William, I removed the ISO and glotto codes as being specifically for Samre of Siem Reap, but the least of this article is consistent with that ID: The language is evidently extinct in Cambodia,(ref for Ethno. entry for ISO = sxm) but a 1998 survey found 20–30 speakers in Nonsi Subdistrict, Bo Rai District, Trat Province, Thailand and estimated the total number of people able to speak the language to be 200. The Ethn. article says, Siem Reap province: Siem Reap town area north of Lake Sap. I'll leave off until you get back to me or fix it. — kwami (talk) 06:18, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]