Talk:Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands

Dylan's Visions of Sin

The book Dylan's Visions of Sin has a pretty comprehensive discussion about the meaning behind this song, and the whole section that covers it is available on google books or whatever it's called. And now, I don't want to be bold and do it myself so don't waste your time and tell me to add it myself :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.163.125.33 (talk) 17:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC) With your silhouette, when the sunlight dims, into your eyes, where the moonlight swims should i leave them by your gate, or sad-eyed lady should i wait? The farmers and the businessmen, they all did decide to show you where the dead angels are that they used to hide —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.222.227 (talk) 12:27, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Where was it written?

I know its a bit mundane, but does anyone have a source on where Bob Dylan was when he wrote "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands"? Rumor has it that he was in Omaha. True? Any help is appreciated. - Freechild 16:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, according to the lyrics of "Sara", he wrote it in the Hotel Chelsea. Hope this helps. Lion King 01:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Cover versions

In the paragraph about cover versions of the song, it reads that Jon Anderson covered the song. The song was covered by Steve Howe (also of Yes) on his album Portraits of Bob Dylan, with Jon Anderson on vocals. The Friends and Relatives albums are compilations with songs pulled from Yes and Yes band members' solo albums. 72.70.10.27 (talk) 03:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

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Song Title

The title of this song "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" seems to have Sara's current surname at the time (Dylan - the letters d, y, l, a, n in order, also there are more than two different ways of forming the word "Dylan" using letters that are in the correct order) as well as Lownds (Lowlands). The "Sad" of the beginning of the title also has the same first two letters as "Sara". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.239.143.130 (talk) 07:12, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Old Crow Medicine Show cover

Old Crow Medicine Show covered this song on their latest album, 50 Years of Blonde on Blonde. I have tried to add this information to the "covers" portion of this article but, despite several modifications, the edit has been reverted by another editor. I am at a loss to understand why OCMS's cover does not merit mention alongside the others listed in the article. PurpleChez (talk) 15:54, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

I have removed this again. WP:SONGCOVER is the reason; I couldn't find any evidence that "the rendition is discussed by a reliable source, showing that it is noteworthy in its own right." Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

It's now back in the article, as I found sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

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Preparing for GA nomination

Having worked on the article, I think that these are some potential areas to address before a GA nomination. Feel free to add other points or to comment. Pinging Mick gold.

• Is the quote from the lyrics too long?
• Should the lengthy "Critical comments" section be subdivided?
• Prose that I've added can be tightened.
• "Live performances, cover versions, and legacy" is a bit of a mix.
• Lead needs review and probably strengthening.
• Marcus citation should be removed if unused.

Regards BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:19, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I've begun to copy edit this. BennyOnTheLoose has amassed a formidable amount of historical and critical material. I'll try to tighten prose, I've shortened lyric quote. I'd like to re-structure "Critical comments" but need to think about it. Mick gold (talk) 17:54, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

I've tried to tighten this up, added a few comments and subtracted a few. I removed G Marcus from references. I had a look at the booklet accompanying the Mono recordings which Marcus wrote and he doesn't mention "Sad Eyed Lady". One puzzle: On the Dylan lyrics website [1] this song seems to have acquired a hyphen "Sad-Eyed". On the album I bought in 1966 and on latest SACD re-release it's still "Sad Eyed" so I've left out the hyphen. BennyOnTheLoose please nominate for GA if you think it's ready to go. Best, Mick gold (talk) 12:13, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for making sense out of the material I'd thrown at the article, Mick gold. The readability is vastly improved. I hadn't noticed about the hyphen; looking through a dozen sources at random I found no consistency, so I'm happy to keep the hyphen out. The only issue I can see is that the quote in the lead from Gray isn't also in the body of the article. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:29, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks BennyOnTheLoose and I've put the Gray quote from the lead into the body of the article. Mick gold (talk) 14:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 14:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Comments

Happy to see this at GAN. It's very neatly constructed and properly cited, and so I have little to say. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

• It would be advisable to repeat the refs for the direct quotations in the lead, if past experience is any sort of guide, and yes, I know what the criterion says.

• Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• The technique section is ... very short. I had a nose about for more sources on the subject, and predictably failed to find anything very usable. There is no doubt that Dylan employed a range of poetic devices in the lyrics; if any scholar one day happens upon this archive, they may care to analyse Dylan's technique and write a learned article about it, or better a conference paper which they can illustrate with sound clips and diagrams of Dylan's alliteration (mercury mouth ... missionary), assonance (sympathize with their side), internal rhyme, metre and all the rest, not to mention his imagery (sheet metal ... Cannery) ... then we'll be able to write the technique section that the song deserves. But I digress. Of course, if you can find anything that enables the article to move even a little way in that direction, it would be an improvement.

• If you haven't already read it, you might be interested in Timothy Hampton's Bob Dylan: How the Songs Work (aka Bob Dylan's Poetics: How the Songs Work), although "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" doesn't get a mention there. There's also Richard F. Thomas's Why Bob Dylan Matters, which according to it's blurb "makes a compelling case for moving Dylan out of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and into the pantheon of classical poets" - sadly it only has a couple of passing mentions of the song. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:12, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• Sounds to me as if we should be working on a wider article then. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

• I wonder if a table of covering artists with columns for date, recording length, and notes (brief summaries of critical comments "with patience and grace") would be helpful? I have often found that presenting info from an article text, compactly summarized, suddenly brings out interesting contrasts.

• Added, let me know what you think. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:30, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• Great. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

• I note in passing that "Critical comments" can be read two ways; since the second half is labelled "More ambivalent responses", perhaps there should be a balancing subheading immediately after "==Critical comments==" to read "===More favourable responses===".

• the first paragraph here seemed to be more about interpretation, so I've put a different heading on that, then added "Favourable responses" (without the "more") - happy to amend these changes per any suggestions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:31, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• Super.

• Perhaps a separate subheading should be "===Literary allusions===", as the mentions of William Blake, Swinburne, and the Book of Ezekiel have rather a different quality from the more general discussion of wedding songs and so on.

• Mick gold what do you think about this? I can have a go at implementing it if you agree. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:12, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• I think we're about there, actually. I've put in the subheading just to see - I think it works rather well actually, but feel free to do with it as you like.

• By the way, if you're going to say "William Blake" in full then it'd make sense to say "Algernon Swinburne" in full also.

• Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Cold eyelids that hide like a jewel
Hard eyes that grow soft for an hour;
The heavy white limbs, and the cruel
Red mouth like a venomous flower;

Algernon Swinburne, "Dolores" lines 1–4

• "Dolores" might be worth quoting from, since you have a critic comparing it to Sad-eyed lady and hence can't be accused of OR in the comparison, and the tone is indeed remarkable. How about a quote box beside where you discuss it?

• An Ezekiel box might be in order, too. I think there'll be room, and again, it'll enable readers to see and hear the similarity in tone that the critic mentions for themselves.

• Spot-checks are all fine.

That's about it from me, whatever you choose to do with the suggestions. Great article, keep 'em coming! Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for the thoughful review, Chiswick Chap. Mick gold, I'm happy to respond, but pinging you in as you may want to reply to some of the points. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks Chiswick Chap for your interesting review and for saying nice things. Your thoughts about a text box for Ezekiel and for Swinburne are intriguing, but I'm afraid I don't have the technical skill to make such a box. Thanks BennyOnTheLoose for an enjoyable collaboration. Mick gold (talk) 11:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Mick gold: You just copy the example box above, replace the text with the bits of Ezekiel or whatever, and cite it as usual. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the example, Chiswick Chap. I've added a Swinburne box and think it contributes to the article. Best, Mick gold (talk) 18:14, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Super. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Well done everyone. It's a worthy GA and a typically tantalising Dylan job for an ambiguous and mesmerising song. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Preparing for FAC nomination

I'm not planning to put this article through the formal peer review process before it's nominated as a Featured article candidate, but I thought it would be useful to have a space for discussion about anything to be addressed before the nomination is made. I'm pinging the prospective co-nominator Mick gold and our GA reviewer Chiswick Chap; please ping any other editor who might be interested.

Sources

• I've seen a cutting of the Variety review (July 6, 1966) that reads: "One full side of an LP is devoted to 'Sad Eyed Lady of The Lowlands,' one of his more pretentious poetic flights, which in this case is an imposition on the patience of his most dedicated fans." Is something from this worth including if we can confirm and properly source it?
• There's nothing from Paul Williams at the moment. His 1966 Crawdaddy piece is quite interesting IMO, but I didn't really see anything in Bob Dylan: Performing Artist: The Early Years that's noticeably lacking from the article.
  • I decided to add a little from Bob Dylan: Performing Artist: The Early Years . BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
• There might be something from "The Cutting Edge, The Sad-Eyed Ladies" in Gray's Outtakes On Bob Dylan: Selected Writings 1967-2021 worth adding; I'll read it and see what I think.
  • I decided to add a little; it's an essay that's more suited to Dylanlologists than general readers IMO. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
• I had a browse through quite a few other books, and did a JSTOR search, and didn't identify any other sources that I considered important enough to add from. (There's a discussion about popped P's in the song in Steve Savage's book chapter "Studio Study: Lipsmacks, Mouth Noises, and Heavy Breathing".)

Lead

• I feel like the lead might be considered slightly short (compared to the FA average of about 300 words mentioned at MOS:LEADLENGTH), but I like it the way it is and have no suggestions for changes at the moment.

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:43, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Metre - is it really a waltz?

If the song is in 6/8 time, I'm not sure that that can be characterised as a waltz. 6/8 consists essentially of 2 beats to the bar (two dotted crotchets): "1 & a, 2 & a" etc.

If the song is in waltz time, then it's time signature would have to be 3/4. Redpaul1 (talk) 10:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

¿Should we mentioned that "Sad Eyed" should be "Sad-Eyed"?

Sad-eyed should be a compound adjective.