Talk:Ryuho Okawa/Archive 1

Archive 1

References

I wonder whether the reference for the allegation that he has written more than 500 books is valid. It is namely the website of his organization. Is that reliable enough?--Mycomp (talk) 00:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That statement is sourced by a The Japan Times report. That seems reliable enough to me. --DAJF (talk) 04:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Added "reportedly" (as used in the newspaper article) because the Japan Times does not vouch for the correctness of the fact.--Mycomp (talk) 07:54, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

It's a fact that he's written or been credit with several bookshelves full. You can visit a Happy Science church to confirm this. Shii (tock) 21:24, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Luxgratia comment

This is my first, and hopefully my last comment of this kind in a discussion page, I am not a Sysop, least of all an administrator. So far my contributions to wikipedia have been humble, my editing skills minute, nevertheless I have not spared efforts to try and make my edits as accurate and coherent as possible with Wikipedia principles, as my record shows (only after my very first flopped and biased edition to any page, that of Hugo Chavez... I admit it LOL, for I have grown to respect wikipedia as a general tool). Now seriously, the principles of wikipedia, I understand, have old roots in western dialectic tradition. I think it is precisely to the bindings of this tradition that we submit ourselves here, in this very page.

Sharing the judgement of Mycomp, who I assume to be an administrator, I also have grave concerns about the extremely questionable neutrality of of this article, not to mention it hagiographic and misleading nature. I understand that my last major edition to it might not have been as skillful as it could have been, though I am learning to use the edit-tools. Nevertheless the deleted bulk of information which I had provided, was corroborated by newspaper articles, although at the time I did not understand well how they are inserted on a page. Luckily, on August 5 2009, DAFJ properly added these links I had referred to, he/she complemented my clumsy editing skills, my gratitude goes to DAFJ. In turn I have very often corrected the errors and mistakes committed by other editors while enhancing their original arguments. This is the beauty of wikipedia, it is a living pulsing encyclopedia. I now return to the main issue at hand. The pressing need to counterbalance the "hagiography" which Ryuho Okawa has been afforded in wikipedia, will not be solved by the recent deletion of my edits, on the contrary it has restored the article closer to its original hagiographical tone. This has been afforded by the questionable reversion executed by Sysop Shii on August 29. As a member of the wikipedia family and with all due respect to him, he should know that he is not above the other four Sysops or administrators who in fourteen previous reviews had not deleted, but only improve the links and style in the best of their habilities. In my own personal opinion there were some other flaws awaiting correction in this article which had been utterly overlooked.

I consider Sysop Shii to have all the right in the world to his own opinions, even an opinion such as stated in his own website, which reads: "...articles that are better than wikipedia...", linking to Shii's own personal articles. In one of these articles (on Human Nature: http://shii.org/knows/Human_nature ) Shii also has full right to authoritatively dictate, as he indulged, that "... Human nature runs as follows. I hereby declare this article better than Wikipedia's retarded mess of an article on the same subject...". I also think Shii has again the same right to his own opinion, even to the degree of cutting mr. Okawa some slack, as he just did, and allow Okawa to keep his personal wikipedia hagiography. Nevertheless, there might be a technical deadlock considering Wikipedia regulations. Hence, I would consider it more viable for Sysop Shii to indulge in such consideration towards okawa within the editorial excellence of his (Shii's) own personal page titled: "Everything Shii Knows, the only reliable source".

That human blood is red or that humans are all mortals, those are facts. To use the italian Dio cantore , and assert it as the name of the deity logged in my hidden consciousness or as Shii writes about Okawa's 500 books, that he (Okawa) truly "...has written or been credit(ed) with several bookshelves full...(because) (we) can visit a Happy Science church to confirm this...", those are not facts, but claims, they are twofold claims by both Shii and Happy Science. (I do agree with Okawa, though, that melodious italian terms are more befitting for those elusive deities in the crevices of our subconscious! )

Terms and concepts, in their own potentiality, are, nonetheless closely bound to the restrictions of their specific semantic spheres. In this respect, and considering the claim of a previous entry, I think it is important to clarify that Happy Science buildings are not churches, nor have they been claimed as such by Happy Science in any sense. Not even etymology allows for a comparison in neither of Greek roots: Kuriakon (Church) nor ekklēsia (ecclesiastical. Opposite to spanish or Italian, this greek root has no derivative noun in English, only adjectives). The only classification claimed by Happy Science regarding their buildings is that of the more generic term: temples. A very fact is that these temples are amply fitted with guided tortoises and caduceus, for Mr. Okawa is also the reincarnation of the greek god Hermes; among many other things, Hermes is the messenger of the Gods, and god of commerce, and last but not least, (citing wikipedia) also the god of the cunning of thieves and liars. In the path of her husband, neither wife Kyoko Okawa, falls short , for "...she is (claimed) a reincarnation of Florence Nightingale and the Greek goddess Aphrodite..." (Telegraph.co.uk August 13 2009).

Referring to solid facts, for a change, a fact is that these next declarations are unquestionably the declarations of Ryuho Okawa, published in The Los Angeles Times in october 19, 1991:

Okawa asserts that only the Japanese Leviathan will survive the imminent end of the world after destroying the United States and the Soviet Union, and that: "...In the 21st Century, there will be no enemies for Leviathan. It (Japan) will slash throats of the old eagle and the exhausted red bear, and laugh at the aging Europe. It will use China as a slave and Korea as a prostitute." Elsewhere in the book, he mocks American "civilization, which produced nothing more than weapons, cars, Coca-Cola and hamburgers. . . ." (Quotes from "Nostradamus: Fearful Prophecies" by Ryuho Okawa?!)

Complete article: http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-19/entertainment/ca-721_1_united-states

Technically we should not consider these last words nor the books as the works of Ryuho Okawa, but in his own opinion as the words Nostradamus' spirit which Okawa claims to channel directly from the afterlife. If we also consider other books where he claims to have channeled the messages of Buddha, the Prophet Muhammad and Jesus Christ then it could be argued, not without a sense of legal irony, we should conclude that he is not the author of 500 books but only some 496, lets say.....

In another more recent article dated August 4 2009, on the Japan Times we read:

"...Against pictures of a mushroom cloud exploding over Tokyo and red ink slowly drowning the nation, the narrator warns that China ultimately lurks behind this plot. "With a population of 1.3 billion, China will rule the world," intones the voice of Kim. "And North Korea will be No. 2." Neither the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, nor their likely successors, the Democratic Party of Japan, have an answer to this threat, says the party. "The very existence of the nation hangs in the balance."

For those wondering how the narrator is privy to the thoughts of the world's most reclusive leader, the answer is simple: The Happies have a hotline direct to his subconscious.

A book released recently, "The Guardian Spirit of Kim Jong Il Speaks," by party founder and President Ryuho Okawa, explains that the voice of Kim's "guardian spirit" warned him of the North's plans. Okawa also tunes into the thoughts of Japan's wartime monarch, Emperor Hirohito, and his deceased predecessors...." (The link to the full article was properly provided by DAFJ in the Okawa wiki-page, thanks! )

Ok.... this might bring the Okawa's self authored book count to 495.... or is it 490.....? after reading how even the press has not been able to avoid it.... I beg of you all to allow me this bit of Irony! of my own .... though enough with the books now.

Or maybe just the reference to one last book, again written by Okawa, only that this time around it is Okawa himself who is being "channeled" through a writer "hired" by Japanese editor Tomo Machiyama. In Machiyama's own words, here is the reference to this controversial book "by" Mr. Okawa. From Machiyama's article:

"...I have a kind of interesting relationship with IRH (The Institute for Research in Human Happiness)... When I was an editor in Japan, I was sued by IRH for publishing a book which made fun of their founder, Ryuho Okawa. Of course I believe in freedom of religion, but I just couldn't stand such a stupid cult-one that was so arrogant to boot....Before Ryuho Okawa founded IRH, he was a ghostwriter literally. I mean, he wrote books as dead people! Like a medium, he wrote books under the names of world-historical religious figures: Christ, Buddha, Mohammad, even Confucius and Zeus...I think there's something very Japanese in that...Maybe someday, we'll worship Allah, too. Japanese believe in any religion, which means we have no faith at all... However, his books have some problems. First of all, they're all written in Japanese. In His book, Christ even uses modern Japanese slang. Second, it's obvious Okawa doesn't know much about the Bible, the Koran, or the Sutras. His Buddha, who can't even spell his wife's name correctly, goes on about Japanese television and the economy, not about ancient India. Following this series of works, Okawa went on to write as nonreligious figures: Shakespeare, Picasso, and Isaac Newton, but "Shakespeare" doesn't mention anything about his plays, and "Newton" doesn't talk about the laws of physics. Nonetheless, the books became bestsellers, because most Japanese have no clue about Christ, Buddha, or Newton. what do all the historical figures in these books say? They talk about the superiority of the Japanese race. In Okawa's book, Warning from Allah, Allah says, "You Japanese are the chosen nation to rule the world. So you should get rid of the peaceful constitution and get armed... Okawa, writing as Nostradamus, predicts, "Japan will occupy Korea again and then take over all of Asia"...No wonder he wrote a book as Buddha. Besides, he said the Buddha, meaning himself, was the creator of the cosmos, the ruler of the universe, and the boss of Christ, Mohammad, and Confucius. That managed to really offend Christians, Moslems, and Buddhists. Many offended groups declared Okawa a fraud who falsely used god's (or rather, godsí) name, but that was all they could do. One of the cults whose founder's name was used by Okawa sued him, but the case was rejected by the court, because it's impossible to prove the authenticity of a ghost. I was the one of the people offended by Okawa, because I am a Korean-Japanese, whom Okawa calls an inferior race. In order to attack him, I used Okawa's tactics. I hired a writer and had him write as Ryuho Okawa. In the book, the writer channeled Okawa's ghost, which confesses that he is just a mediocre man and apologizes to the people he hurt. It was kind of a joke, but we read all of Okawa's books and thoroughly researched his background. We criticized his fascism and screeds against minorities, gays, and women." (online article by Tomo Machiyama )

The link to the complete article: http://japattack.com/japattack/newiframe/newjapattack/culture/lawsofthesun.html

To end this long, entry, I would simply state that the first editor I shared my thoughts with was Darwinek, who I thank for his advice in this and other occasions. It was him who encouraged me to post my concerns in the discussion page. Needless to say, the least of my intentions would be to engage in an editing battle and least of all a heated debate, which would not be far from hilarious. I am submiting this case to the to the civility of this page and the opinion of qualified Wikipedia editors. I kindly ask Sysop Shii to understand my arguments and the constructive purpose behind them, assuring him I mean no grudge, just fervor in my argument at the most.

In my original edit I deleted not a single one of Okawa's controversial attributes, I just revealed them for what they truly are: claims. Restraining my own judgements, I have engaged in mirroring the judgements and arguments of others, and only through theirs, to suggest my own. I would appreciate if you would treat my entry here, on account of this self imposed constraint, which I have chosen to modulate my own argument. I would engage in further editions to this page, only and only after an reasonable agreement has been reached through common debate, for the sake of Wikipedia and for the sake of the respect we afford this website. If you really read through this whole (!) entry.... well congratulations!! (LOL) I await for your responses, thanks--Luxgratia (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Prior to Mycomp's edits the article was kind of hagiographic one, indeed. Now it is better, yet it needs expansion referenced with voices of criticism, as Luxgratia pointed out. The language of the article should be proper as well, distinction between "is" and "claims to be" should be noted. I encourage all involved parties to constructively edit the article with calm head and use third-party references. - Darwinek (talk) 13:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

hagiography

This article sounds rather hagiographic to me.--Mycomp (talk) 00:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The hagiographic nature of the article may be due to persistent editing. There are a small numebr of articles critical (or at least non-partisan) of Okawa on the internet, but the vast majority of them are positive; most of these can be traced directly back to followers or to information supplied directly by them. Happy Science employs the services of Japan's largest advertising agency, which has apparently flooded the internet with articles and information that is overwhelmingly positive. Is it possible that this article is watched and editied by this company or members of his religion to keep it from expressing criticism?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by H Mcmanus (talk • contribs) 07:53, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

From beyond the grave book

There should be something in the article about "The Secret Behind 'The Rape of Nanking': A Spiritual Confession by Iris Chang" by Ryuho Okawa, a quite strange book which I've seen. It uses mystic séance spirit writings to justify Japanese WW2 Nanjing war crimes. Churchh (talk) 21:13, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

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Should be added based on Japanese translation

Should add information. Because the amount of information is small. this is Japanese wiki　 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%B7%9D%E9%9A%86%E6%B3%95

1986年に「幸福の科学」を設立。信者は世界100カ国以上に広がっており、全世界に宗教施設を建立している[注 1]。説法回数は2700回を超え、また著作は32言語に翻訳され、公称の発刊点数は日本国内で2300書を超える[PR 3]。ハッピー・サイエンス・ユニバーシティと幸福の科学学園の創立者。幸福実現党の創立者兼総裁[PR 4]。ニュースター・プロダクション（株）会長、ARI Production（株）会長。

translation

Established "Science of Happiness" in 1986. Believers spread to over 100 countries worldwide. He is constructing religious facilities throughout the world. The number of preaching exceeds 2700 times,Moreover, the work has been translated into 32 languages. Nominal issue number exceeds 2300 books in Japan. Founder of Happy Science University and Happy Science Academy. Founder and president of Happiness Realization Party. President of New ster Production Co., Ltd.President of ARI Production Co., Ltd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 16:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done No, Wikipedia can never be used as a source (regardless of language). Most of that information is in the article already, and the rest is just empty promotion. --bonadea contributions talk 16:48, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Since there is a source in the Japanese version wiki, will describe it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 16:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Add another position　

Add another position　This is a fact　The entry is missing　New information

It is also Chairman of Newster Production Co., Ltd. and Chairman of ARI Production Co., Ltd.

Source https://ryuho-okawa.org/ja/#/profile

ニュースター・プロダクション(株)会長、ARI Production(株)会長でもある。 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 17:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion　Add an article About representative study The law of the sun with the largest number of circulation, Law series

Suggestion　Add an article About representative study The law of the sun with the largest number of circulation, Law series

The law of the sun…The Laws of the Sun is the first in a trilogy of volumes that includes The Laws of Eternity and The Golden Laws. [copyright violation redacted] （https://www.amazon.co.jp/Laws-Sun-Spiritual-History-Governing/dp/193005162X） — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 17:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

That looks like advertising for a non-notable book, and in addition the text was copied verbatim from the author's website. Note also that Amazon can't be used as a reference. --bonadea contributions talk 18:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion2　Can I add articles as a film director?

Can I add articles as a film director? He made lots of movies　I would like to hear opinions Beginners but I like to write articles — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 17:54, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Add the following sentences He created a movie of the law of the sun — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 00:13, 1 September 2018 (UTC) }}

Suggestion3　Fill in the title of the book he wrote

Suggestion3　Fill in the title of the book he wrote.

I do not know much about the wiki so I want opinions. Is this appropriate?

Describe the name of the book he published The law of the sun Golden law Eternal law — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 00:19, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion4　Biography

It becomes easy to understand if you write a bio

ex）July 1956　Born in Kawashima Town, Yoshinogawa City, Tokushima Prefecture 　　March 1972　Graduated from Yoshinogawa shi Tachikawajima junior high school ...

Is this suggestion appropriate from the wiki rules? I wrote while looking at wiki rules, so I want an answer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 00:28, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Sourcing an article in this encyclopedia

Most of the sources should be independent of the subject of the article and meet WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. This is particularly important for discussion of his work. Editors shouldn't pick aspects of a book for instance that they think are interesting and add them. They need to find sources that discuss it and if they can't, it probably isn't significant enough for inclusion. See WP:UNDUE. Doug Weller talk 15:44, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion5 Update the latest information

Update the latest information. Do you think that you want to add the latest information?

https://ryuho-okawa.org/#/profile

In addition, the movie "Closer to the mind" (published in May 2018), "Farewell Youth, Though Youth." (Actual Public · Public May), "Law of the Universe - Dawn Hen -" (Animation · Fall Public), "My girlfriend is a witchcraft" (live-action / released in 2019), etc. He is conducting and planning 15 movie theaters movies.

また、映画「心に寄り添う。」（ドキュメンタリー・2018年5月公開）、「さらば青春、されど青春。」（実写・同年5月公開）、「宇宙の法-黎明編-」（アニメ・同年秋公開）、「僕の彼女は魔法使い」（実写・2019年公開）など、15作の劇場用映画を製作総指揮・企画している。 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 14:09, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Only if there are secondary sources supporting the information, not if his own website is the only source. And what he plans to do is almost certainly not relevant for an encyclopedia. --bonadea contributions talk 14:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

dear　Bonadea

I appreciate your remarks properly Provide articles on web pages published by Japanese newspaper companies I write articles about making movies

https://www.nikkansports.com/entertainment/news/201805120000566.html http://www.topics.or.jp/articles/-/87398 https://www.zakzak.co.jp/ent/news/180515/ent1805156719-n1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 20:07, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion　Add another position　 ==

Add another position　This is a fact　The entry is missing　New information

It is also Chairman of Newster Production Co., Ltd. and Chairman of ARI Production Co., Ltd.

Source https://ryuho-okawa.org/ja/#/profile

ニュースター・プロダクション(株)会長、ARI Production(株)会長でもある。 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 17:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

https://news.nifty.com/article/entame/showbizd/12122-97440/ ARIプロダクションは大川隆法総裁が会長を務め — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 20:28, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion6 Addition of way of thinking

what's your opinion please

https://ryuho-okawa.org/

aiming to unite the world and aim to construct French national utopia around the world. All the political activities, education and other activities that we are doing are directed towards realizing the Utopia of the French country, integrating different thoughts and opinions in one direction towards God It is aiming at. For example, Japan has Shintoism in Japan, there are teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings of Buddha, Muhammad and Allah's teachings in the world. Although each has different aspects, our happiness science has accepted these religions and shows a liberal attitude. We must change these religions into something that aims for the same direction. This is the reason why our activities are diverse. Everything is an exercise for the utopia construction.

世界を一つにし、仏国土ユートピアを世界中に建設することを目指しているということです。私たちがやっている政治活動や教育、その他の活動はすべて、仏国土ユートピアを実現する方向に向けられており、互いに異なる思想や意見を、神へと向かう一つの方向に統合していくことを目指しているのです。

たとえば、日本には日本神道があり、世界にはイエス・キリストの教えや、釈尊の教え、ムハンマドやアッラーの教えがあります。それぞれが違う面を持ってはいますが、私たち幸福の科学は、これらの宗教を受け容れ、寛容な姿勢を示しています。これらの宗教を、同じ一つの方向を目指すものに作り変えていかなければなりません。これが、私たちの活動が多岐にわたっている理由です。すべてはユートピア建設のための運動なのです。 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 14:21, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

No. That is promotional and not informational; anything that includes phrasing like "we must..." is not going to be appropriate for Wikipedia. --bonadea contributions talk 14:30, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

dear Bonadea　I appreciate your opinion as well. Certainly it is better to delete this part What do you think in this expression?

aiming to unite the world and aim to construct French national utopia around the world. All the political activities, education and other activities that we are doing are directed towards realizing the Utopia of the French country, integrating different thoughts and opinions in one direction towards God It is aiming at. For example, Japan has Shintoism in Japan, there are teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings of Buddha, Muhammad and Allah's teachings in the world. Although each has different aspects, our happiness science has accepted these religions and shows a liberal attitude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 20:01, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

As before, no, that does not belong in an encyclopedia -- there is no essential difference from your previous suggestion, and still zero independent sources. --bonadea contributions talk 20:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

ok!You are right.I was convinced.Let's not post this sentence.Thank you for the polite explanation！ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:46, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion　Describe the number of members of his organization

Describe the number of members of his organization. Could you tell me your opinion?

Additional sentences 「His organized happy science has 11 million members worldwide,His organization has been widely criticised as a cult.」

sorce ①幸福の科学、創価学会等　新宗教の信者数最新ランキング紹介 https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20141227_291384.html

②Fumika Shimizu Retires From Acting to Join Happy Science Religious Organization https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-02-13/fumika-shimizu-retires-from-acting-to-join-happy-science-religious-organization/.112162

③Inside Happy Science https://tribecacitizen.com/2010/01/28/inside-happy-science/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 02:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I would like to hear your opinion. Can I make changes if there is no opinion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 11:29, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Not really relevant for this article - Happy Science is about the organisation, while this article is about Okawa. I'll update the information in the Happy Science article. --bonadea contributions talk 12:19, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

thank you very much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:22, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion Update the latest information　Since the content is old, what about updating to the latest

Since the content is old, what about updating to the latest I want to hear your opinion. Could you tell me.

sorce https://ryuho-okawa.org/

He established “Kofuku-no-Kagaku (the Happy Science religious organization in Japan)” in 1986. He has believers in over 100 countries and has built religious facilities throughout the world. The number of his sermons exceed 2700 times. His works have been translated into 32 languages and the nominal number of his publications exceed 2300 in Japan. The founder of the Happy Science University and Happy Science Academy. The founder and president of the Happiness Realization Party. The president of the New Star Production Co., Ltd. and ARI Production Co., Ltd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 01:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I would like to hear your opinion. Can I make changes if there is no opinion?

Update to the latest information — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:44, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Since you represent Okawa, you should not make any changes to the article even if nobody responds on this page. The text you proposed above (and added to the article) is partly a repetition of what is already in the article's introduction, and the rest is promotional and unsourced. --bonadea contributions talk 14:26, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

This time I presented the evidence and made a detailed statement. I did not write a lie or an exaggeration. Is it a wiki's rule that a person interested in that person should not edit it? I am not describing it unilaterally but I am asking you to look at it objectively This time we presented the agenda for the first time, so it ran for a few days so we ran it There is something for your remarks, but I do not think you have the right to ban edit. For example, if editing is not allowed for things of interest, does it comply with the spirit of the wiki? Arbitrary editing is not good. So why do not you always look at this objectively? I have a question. So I definitely want you to answer positively This article will not develop unless you answer. WIKI does not develop either I am eager to make a friendly and constructive debate. From now on, please Please let me hear your thoughts Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:44, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion11　Why do not you describe your movies?

How about setting up movies and writing movies? Please give me your opinion. Source https://ryuho-okawa.org/ja/#/pictures https://www.nikkansports.com/entertainment/news/201805120000566.html http://www.topics.or.jp/articles/-/87398 https://www.zakzak.co.jp/ent/news/180515/ent1805156719-n1.html

He is responsible for the production of the following movie productions (Happy scientific publication work and news producer production)

"Nostradamus Fearless Revelation" (1994) "Hermes - love is like the wind" (1997) "The law of the sun" (2000) "The Golden Law" (2003) "Eternal law" (2006) "Buddha rebirth" (2009) (above, distribution is Toei) "Final Judgment" (June 2012) "The Mystery Law The Mystical Laws" (October 2012) "Secret of UFO Gakuen" (2015) "I'm an angel to fine" (2016) "Your gaze" (2017) "Farewell, youth, but youth" (May 2018) "Dawn of the Law of the Universe" (October 2018)

Do you have any opinion? I am waiting for your opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:09, 12 September 2018 (UTC) {{edit COI|answered=yes}}for requested edits. Post on the article talk page, in a thread that describes the edit to be made. The template automatically adds the request to the list of edits requested and Category:Requested edits.

 Not done 1) There is no explanation of what you are requesting and the request itself was malformed, which shows that the instructions for using the template were ignored. If you refer to the text above the request template, that is not an acceptable addition. 2) Despite clear and explicit (and repeated) requests on your user talk page for a proper COI declaration, no such declaration has been forthcoming. You are wasting the time of volunteer editors. This may be due to poor English language skills, but if your English is too poor to understand clear instructions, English Wikipedia is not for you - especially not when you have a blatant conflict of interest. --bonadea contributions talk 06:53, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Because editing wik is the first time, I may fail, but please forgive me. Everyone is a beginner at the beginning. If anyone can not edit until being skilled, nobody can edit. Is it the spirit of the wiki? Thank you for your polite explanation.Can you tell me about COI declaration? What do you mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 08:56, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, everybody starts out as a beginner, and experienced editors generally try to help newer editors out, and explain how things work. We were all new once, and that's how we learn. But in this case, there was a clear explanation here about how to use the template, which you ignored or didn't understand. (You must have followed that link since you did post the template). As for "COI declaration", that was explained on your talk page here three weeks ago (and you acknowledged that), and then again here (twice). Yet you ask about it here as if you've never heard the phrase before - so either you ignored the three requests on your talk page, or else you did not understand them. Competence is required to edit Wikipedia, and that includes being able to understand the information people provide. --bonadea contributions talk 14:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

You are very knowledgeable. I sincerely thank you for your polite explanation. I look forward to working with you. teacher (talk • contribs) 08:56, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: book titles

Describe the name of the book he published The law of the sun Golden law Eternal law — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 12:31, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Reply 21-SEP-2018

  Unable to implement  

• The subject has written, by his estimate, 2,300 books. They cannot all be listed here. spintendo  15:41, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

In this proposal, do not state that we will list all 2300 volumes. Did you recognize it in the sense that it describes several copies? How is it? Jizugatudo 15:41, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: previous occupation

Add information Before he became a religion he worked at a trading company.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 12:34, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Reply 21-SEP-2018

  Already implemented  

• The subjects's work at a Tokyo based trading house is already described in the article.  spintendo  15:41, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: His organization has 11 million members

His organization has 11 million members

https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20141227_291384.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Reply 21-SEP-2018

  Unable to implement  

• Additional references for this figure should be provided. spintendo  15:41, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Spintendo answer is not logical at all, if you just do not write reasons properly and only deny, I would like you to explain why properly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.33.19.67 (talk) 01:28, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: previous occupation

|His maiden name is Nakagawa.（He changed his name when he became a religionist — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizugatudo (talk • contribs) 04:31, 22 September 2018 UTC) (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reliable source for this information. --bonadea contributions talk 09:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Add the following sentences He created a movie of the law of the sun

Add the following sentences He created a movie of the law of the sun — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizugatudo (talk • contribs) 01:34, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Jizugatudo: Are you the same user as Orugaberuteika, whose requests you are copying and pasting? You show the same lack of understanding of how Wikipedia works, and you write in the exact same style (when you are not copypasting). Please note that using more than one account to make it look as if different people are making the same argument is prohibited.

As for the request for addition, no. There is no source, no information about what "he created" means, and no indication that the movie is in any way notable enough to mention in a Wikipedia article. --bonadea contributions talk 09:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Since I have two computers, I have two accounts, is this a problem? Because I am writing the same item, does not anyone think that it is another user? Is this a bad thing?

It is a problem. Please follow this link and read the information. Pick one account, use that from every computer you log in from, make the required COI declaration (this is, what, the fifth time you are asked? There is information about this on both your user talk pages), and don't forget to log in (these last few posts have come from your IP address). ---bonadea contributions talk 11:17, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

There is no argument in this sentence

Successor Masaki Okawa (as of 1989) There is no argument in this sentence. We need to show the rationale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizugatudo (talk • contribs) 04:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

That is not a sentence, it is part of the infobox. The parameter "successor" makes no sense, however - successor to what? - and as there is no source I'm removing it from the infobox. --bonadea contributions talk 09:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

yes I thnik "successor"makes no sense,It may be deleted contribs) 19:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.33.19.67 (talk)

Edit request: His organization has 11 million members

His organization has 11 million members

https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20141227_291384.html — Preceding

Shogakkan is the representative publishing house in Japan, and this article is credible because it was written by Shogakkan. It is not just a personal blog https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEWS%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%BB%E3%83%96%E3%83%B3 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A6%E9%A4%A8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizugatudo (talk • contribs) 01:39, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Under this article "From the Religious Yearbook Heisei 20th Edition") is the medium issued by the Japanese government and is the view of the Japanese government.

Yearbook Heisei 20th Edition http://www.bunka.go.jp/tokei_hakusho_shuppan/hakusho_nenjihokokusho/shukyo_nenkan/pdf/h25nenkan.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizugatudo (talk • contribs) 01:42, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

As already discussed, information about the cult he started belongs in the article about that cult. Sourced membership figures are present in the article Happy Science; they are not relevant for this article. --bonadea contributions talk 09:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that's right, so this is another story. Notation of the number of members is also necessary. What is the sentence that it is a cult firstly to mention the number of members as a sentence of Bell? I think you are a person who understands the story, what do you think? (talk • contribs) 01:42, 23 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.33.19.67 (talk)

I am very sorry but I don't understand your question. --bonadea contributions talk 11:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Can you tell me where you do not understand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.33.19.67 (talk) 11:08, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Notation of the number of members is also necessary - what do you mean by "notation"? And no, it is not necessary in this article. What is the sentence that it is a cult firstly to mention the number of members as a sentence of Bell? - that is entirely incomprehensible, I'm afraid. (And who is Bell?) --bonadea contributions talk 11:43, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed changes

Thank you for answering, I would like to express my opinion. I think that there is a relationship. I believe that the number of followers is a necessary factor in accurately communicating him to article browsing users. On the page of Daisaku Ikeda representative of Soka Gakkai which is the same religion of Japan, the number of members is written. (Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisaku_Ikeda) In Japan's new religion, only Soka Gakkai and Happy Science have more than 10 million followers. I think that describing the number of members is necessary information to understand him. For users, religious groups with small numbers of members and large religious groups have different understandings. In fact not only in Japan, there will be religious groups called cults all over the world. But depending on the scale, the meaning will differ. I think. If the number of believers in happiness science is about 100 or about 10,000 or so, it is a common small religious organization, so I do not need to mention anything special. But I think that the number of believers of 11 million is worth noting as information about him. (Again, it is only the Soka Gakkai and the science of happiness that there are over 10 million believers in Japanese new religion. Whether he is a representative of a small religious organization of about 10,000 people or a representative of a large religious organization of more than 11 million people, I think that it is important information to characterize that person . With that kind of consideration, not only pages of Soka Gakkai but also pages of Ikeda Daisaku have written membership number. How do you think that it would be more useful to include this number in addition to the number of believers in order to make this page fulfilling and make it a page that properly conveys him to the viewing user? Like the page of Ikeda Daisaku (the representative of Soka Gakkai), is not it kind to the viewing user to mention the number of members on the page of Okawa Ryotou (representative of science of happiness)? I understand that the purpose of wiki editing should be to delete meaningless information, add useful information to users, enrich them without excess or deficiency, and turn them into useful articles for users. I would like to receive guidance if my understanding is wrong in the first place. Reference Soka Gakkai chairperson Ikeda Daisaku 827 million households Happy science representative Takao Okawa 11 million people Https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20141227_291384.html comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 09:39, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Ten days since the proposal. I would like to change if there is no objection. Please let me know if there is a problem. comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 10:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean by "if there is no objection"? The edit request was declined on 7 October. You did not make any new arguments so obviously the previous objections still stand. The material does not belong here, it belongs in the article about the organisation. There may be a strong element of person worship in the organisation, but that does not mean that the person is the same as the organisation, and adding the figure here looks very much like an attempt to inflate his perceived importance without adding anything useful for the reader. Additionally, you ignored the request to present reliable sources (the one you added has already been discussed on this talk page and it does not meet WP:RS, and doesn't even mention Okawa's name). What is included in other Wikipedia articles is irrelevant. You have declared that you have no conflict of interest, but from the perspective of the encyclopedia you are still editing in a way that is entirely indistinguishable from somebody who has a strong COI, and so you should not edit the article directly. --bonadea contributions talk 07:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. I was waiting for your advice. Sorry for making direct edits with this misunderstanding. sorry. The first point is that the name of Okawa Ryotou is not in the article. But Okawa Ryotoru is written in the article as being the creator of happiness science. Is not this obvious? What is wrong with this? I am waiting for your reply. With love comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 22:39, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Expression that it is widely criticized as cult is an exaggeration

Enough. The questions were first answered a month ago, and several times since then, and repeating them endlessly will not lead anywhere. There seems to be a language barrier issue. --bonadea contributions talk 07:14, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
These sources are representations of reporters individuals and are underlying reasoning. Therefore, the notation that it is widely criticized as cult is an exaggeration, and since it feels the intention, why not delete it at the present time. 1）https://web.archive.org/web/20151222092033/http://www.observer.ug/component/content/article?id=19408:clerics-call-for-probe-into-happy-science 2）https://web.archive.org/web/20120825072332/http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/07/22/happy-science-a-new-cult-offers-celebrity-guide-heaven.html 3）https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/blooming--happy-science-cult-channels-disney-ghandi-jesus-and-thatcher-20151028-gkkzow.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)  Not done The word "cult" is solidly referenced in the article about the organisation, and is not an exaggeration. Every reference does not need to be duplicated here, since again, the article is about the individual and not the organisation. If you read the references, you will see that they do not represent the opinions of individual journalists; the word is used by multiple experts and organisations, as well as in media more generally, according to the reports in these three reliable sources. --bonadea contributions talk 14:21, 18 October 2018 (UTC) Thank you for the reply. I will admire your enthusiasm.I can not understand this part. Could you tell me why you thought so. A little more carefully, I am waiting for your reply. Thank you. Every reference does not need to be duplicated here, since again, the article is about the individual and not the organisation. Why differences arise between organizations and individuals. There is also a cult notation of the article on the wiki of happy scinece In addition to that, I think that we need more evidence of cults to express it as a cult. There are many articles about the science of happiness in the world. For example, at a Japanese newspaper company, Okawa goes to Germany for a lecture and is taken up as an article. There will be more than 10,000 articles about him. I think that it is not logical to write Cult as it is written as cult only in three of them. For the writer of this wiki, I clearly feel the intention of writing Okawa Ryohiko worse than it actually is. I think this is different from the spirit of wiki comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 20 October 2018 The article does not say that his organisation is a cult. (In my opinion it would be more than reasonable to say that, but that is beside the point, as it doesn't in fact say it). It says that it has been widely criticized as a cult. As for the difference between the individual and the organisation, it seems pretty clear that Okawa is individually notable. If he were only notable because of his connection with the organisation, there shouldn't be an article about him at all, rather a paragraph about him in the Happy Science article. The fact that Happy Science is called a cult (and a sect) in many different contexts and by experts and media all over the world is very well-sourced indeed in the article about Happy Science, so your claim that there are only three newspaper articles is verifiably incorrect. All those sources are not required here, for reasons already explained. There is strong and unambiguous consensus in favour of this phrasing among the editors who are unaffiliated with the organisation. --bonadea contributions talk 13:41, 23 October 2018 (UTC) Thank you for your polite reply. I would like to express my opinion. 1) If so, will need more articles about cults. There are only three here. Although there are only three sources, it is irrational to have more. I need to post more here. 2) And in these three articles, it is an arbitrary reason that someone said this. Some university professor said The basis is thin. not written any evidence that it is widely said to be a cult in the world. There is no explanation as to why it is a cult. 3) Cult is basically a small number of people. However, the science of happiness already has 12 million members. This is a huge religion. 4) Cult is acting as an antisocial act. There is no specific basis that the science of happiness is acting anti-social. There is no source. 5) For the above reasons, the notation of cult is an exaggeration at the moment, and I feel that intend to write Okawa badly beyond necessity. I Although I have nothing to do with the science of happiness, Okawa is one of the intellectuals respected in Japan by many people. I think that this way of writing is inappropriate. Then many Japanese respect the guru of antisocial cult religion. That should not be. In the cult group, there are no 12 million followers, and there is no way to pick him up in Japanese television and newspapers. (If we pick up the guru of the cult group, complaints will rush to the newspaper company.) If so, it should be despised first in Japan.The Japanese does not tolerate antisocial cults. 6) At the moment the cult notation should be deleted. It should be noted after further verification. comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 25 October 2018 All these points are addressed already (except that I'll add that it is a misunderstanding - maybe based on a poor translation of the word "cult" into Japanese - that cults are necessarily small groups of people. That is not the case, a cult may have millions of members. Not that that is really relevant since the article does not claim that HS is a cult.) --bonadea contributions talk 05:59, 26 October 2018 (UTC) Thank you. Would you please give me your opinion in turn over my issue? Once what I discussed is permanent, the meaning I propose here will be lost. It will be laborious. It is wrong to say that decisions discussed once in the past can not be changed forever. Would you give your opinion in turn to the issue of 1 to 6? If you do not have an opinion, you may write that there is no opinion. I want your opinion. I do not want to answer only a part but please answer the number showing the number.comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 26 October 2018 I have already replied to your opinions 1-6. You ask questions that I have already answered in this very section, and questions that have nothing to do with the article (and I have replied to that as well!) Since it seems that I am not capable of expressing myself clearly due to the language barrier, it would be pointless for me to try to rephrase the exact same things yet another time. Other editors may be more skilled at this. --bonadea contributions talk 14:06, 26 October 2018 (UTC) I doubt it. [[User:Orugaeruteika}} your questions have been answered. I don't know why you have repeated them. I agree with Bonadea. Doug Weller talk 16:20, 26 October 2018 (UTC) Dear Doug Weller. Thank you for participating in the discussion! Please let me know your opinion. I have not received the opinion of Doug Weller so far, so please let me know what you think. However, I am waiting for Bonadea 's answer. I have been discussing with Bonadea so far. I want to get a word directly from Bonadea. Nice to meet you. I think that it is a theme that has not been discussed yet in my recognition. If you think it is wrong, I'm very sorry to trouble you but can you show it again? Best regard. I do not have time to spare, because I am a reasonable person, I do not feel like repeating meaningless. I want you to understand it. If there are many questions, I am sorry. Squeeze to one point. The article called "being cult" which is the source of this article lacks the "specific case" that it is a cult. Why can we certify as a cult? Is not it inappropriate to pick up a source that does not contain concrete examples as a source? In this article I feel the intention of expressing Okawa Ryoho over badly. Again, I have nothing to do with Okawa Ryori. However, this is inappropriate as a statement for a living person. How to interpret the meaning of the term 'cult' is another problem, I believe that this citation is inappropriate citation. bonadea, Doug Weller, I really appreciate the two people. I would like to receive the opinions of my dear friends. With love comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 30 October 2018 I wait for the answers of two dear friends.comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 13:55, 2 November 2018 I already responded above. --bonadea contributions talk 12:54, 2 November 2018 (UTC) Sorry, I want to discuss it. I will not answer questions that are difficult to answer, so if there is any, the discussion will not proceed. ask. Just because I want to know your opinion, with love, Orugaberuteika (talk) 04:27, 3 November 2018 (UTC) I am sorry that there were a lot of questions. I will supplement it. I want to argue a point. "This source lacks concrete grounds." The content of this article is an article that "Mr. A thought that science of happiness was a cult". There is no written rational, concrete or objective argument about why the science of happiness is a cult. Numerical verification has not been done either. Based on such an unfounded article, it is a little overwhelming to write "widely criticized as cult".Where in this citations article "Whether it is inappropriate as a source because there is no objective, logical, or numerical evidence to prove cults, It is not evidence that some people think that this religion is cult and just write it, it does not assert that it is a cult. If it is accredited as a cult, it is necessary to find a logical and concrete basis for objectively indicating it. Please indicate which part of this article falls under that. Otherwise it is inappropriate to write in cults and articles. How about? Orugaberuteika (talk) 23:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC) Sorry, I forgot to write so add it. Forgive me. This article is an article for a living person. I have to write this article carefully. And when writing criticism sufficient verification is necessary. That is the rule of WIKI. If the argument that "Okawa is a guru of a cult organization" is insufficient, is not the sentence "widely criticized as cult" is inappropriate? If writing "cult", more evidence is necessary. Many people objectively read this article, and now it is a state where it can not be judged that "Okawa is definitely cult" when looking at the source. At this stage, is not it exaggerating to write that "the group he made is widely criticized as a cult?" How about feeling it is inappropriate notation even from the WIKI rule? WIKI must write the truth. If you do not do enough verification, tell a false alarm and write a person badly, that is something you should not be as an editor of WIKI. I think it is inappropriate to write that cult groups are widely criticized at this time. More discussion is necessary. Although arguing may not be needed anymore, I do not think there is a clear, objective, and logical basis clearly stated there even if I read the argument that has been written so far. If at least many people read this source, "If Okawa is certainly a guru of a cult organization," the source is inadequate. Orugaberuteika (talk) 23:27, 8 November 2018 (UTC) Thank you for everything, I understand that you are busy, but I want some kind of reply. In order to make WIKI better, we need your opinion. Thank you. Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:34, 13 November 2018 (UTC) Dear folks. I've been waiting since that, but I want some reply. If you do not participate in the discussion, please just let me know so. I am waiting. I'm begging you.Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:39, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey, have you finished this discussion already? I am a high school teacher in Japan. I was thinking of writing the same thing, but what happened? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retty435 (talk • contribs) 10:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

The initial cult notation should make a category as an evaluation.

The initial cult notation should make a category as an evaluation. Original research 2 (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Hey what do you mean? Create a new category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Random guy 2124 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)