Talk:Price tag attack policy

retribution against palestinian violence in lead

Price tag attacks are predominantly in response to Israeli actions, and even the NBC source makes that clear. Among the sources that demonstrate that are:

• ADL: Since 2008, there have been repeated attacks carried out by extremist Israeli Jews against Israeli Arabs and Palestinians, often in reprisal for Israeli government action against illegal settlement activity. These attacks, which are frequently labeled “price tag” incidents, target mosques, churches, Arab and Jewish homes and property, Israeli military bases and vehicles, as well as other Israeli Jews. They involve the desecration of property with anti-Arab and anti-government slogans. Most of these attacks include the phrase “price tag” and are accompanied by hateful and racist slogans, the name of an illegal settlement, or a reference to an Israeli casualty of Palestinian terrorism, the implication being that the violent incident is the “cost” of Israeli government action on settlements or for anti-Israeli violence.
• Haaretz: The 'price-tag' policy was adopted by Israeli settlers and right-wing activists, intended to pressure the government away from making concessions regarding settlement building in the West Bank. Attacks of the sort usually occur after the dismantling of an outpost or similar event, and are often directed at Israeli Arabs, Palestinians and left-wing organizations.
• Guiora, A.N. (2014). Tolerating Intolerance: The Price of Protecting Extremism. Terrorism and global justice series. OUP USA. ISBN 978-0-19-933182-6. Retrieved 2020-12-27. "Price Tag," also known as "Arbut Hadadit" (Mutual Responsibility) is a set of violent tactics employed by national-religious Israeli settlers in the West Bank to deter Israeli law enforcement authorities from removing illegally-built structures from West Bank settlements.

The NBC source cited does indeed include that the attacks are sometimes in response to Palestinian violence. That is a single line in an article devoted entirely to how price tag attacks are generally in response to Israeli actions. The overwhelming majority of sources, and among academic sources nearly the entirety, say that price-tag attacks are taken in response to Israeli government actions. There are certainly attacks carried out in response to Palestinian actions, but those generally are not price-tag attacks, and even when they are called that in the press they make up a tiny proportion of them. Including it in the lead is UNDUE. nableezy - 07:43, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

See also the next section. Shrike restored text that is blatantly tendentious and evidently contra-factual since he did not read the proper ref attributing to the New York Times, the one below Kershner. Nishidani (talk) 10:12, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources that say so except NBC and NYTIMES that in my opinion its enough to include in lead for example [1],[2],[3] there are probably more. I think we can agree to the very least that it should in the body of the article --18:57, 27 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrike (talk • contribs)

Yes, there are news sources that conflate the two, but it is very rare for a price tag attack to be purportedly in response to a Palestinian action. I think you know that. And the sources bear that out. nableezy - 19:13, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Stop the POV obsession Shrike. There are statistical charts showing a dramatic spike in price tag violence after incidents of Palestinian violence have fallen off equally dramatically. It's sheer blundering POV mania to try to misrepresent the phenomenon as, to use that invariable term, as an 'Israeli response' to some Palestinian provocation. You know that, everyone knows that, settlers know that. If anything, their continual harassment esp during harvest time is calculated to provoke Palestinians into retaliation as much as damage what little the latter have. Nishidani (talk) 20:08, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Strikes again

Shrike. Your edit summaries when not opaque are often false policy wise. Yersterday another two examples: (a) fixced source falsification.

Fact. There was no ‘source falsification’- a dramatic accusation. We had 3 sources. You apparently read the personal definition of the first of them, by Isabel Kershner, which runs:

The New York Times describers it as as (note reduplication) "to exact a price from local Palestinians for violence against settlers or from Israeli security forces for taking action against illegal construction in Jewish outposts in the West Bank.’

You attribute Kershner’s personal spin to the New York Times (which she writes for). Had you taken the trouble to read the other source by Uri Friedman below,

'The New York Times defines price tag attacks as incidents in which radical Jewish settlers "exact a price from local Palestinians or from the Israeli security forces for any action taken against their settlement enterprise".

You would have noted Friedman attributes to the New York Times, and omits what Kershner adds, ‘for violence against settlers.’ You passed off Kershner's bizarre spin for the official view of the NYT. Kershner's sneaky tweak is rubbish, as a thousand reports will show.

So you (a) failed to read all the sources (b) confused Isabel Kershner with the New York Times (c) made a false edit summary complaining about falsification of sources (d) and now have the brazenness to revert back your egregious errors even when corrected.Nishidani (talk) 10:09, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Ridiculously biased towards Israel

Why does this page begin by minimising violent Jewish terrorism, calling it “vandalism” and “retribution” committed by “youths”? It’s a pretty blatant violation of WP:NPOV and needs to be fixed ILoveHirasawaYui (talk) 15:20, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 20 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 19:49, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

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Price tag attack policy → Price tag attacks – Move to WP:COMMONNAME based on the phraseology in the bulk of sourcing - 'price tag policy' was a phrase used only occasionally and intermittently largely in the early part of the last decade (300 recent news hits), and has since been overwhelmingly superseded by 'price tag attacks' in common usage (2,200 recent news hits) ... 'price tag attack policy' has, as far as I can tell, rarely if ever been used as a set phrase (0 recent news hits). Price tag attacks is clearly the common term for this phenomenon in reliable, seondary sources. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:07, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I should perhaps also of noted that most of the prominent, first-page hits for 'price tag policy' are not even stories about Israel - the first appears half-way down. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:20, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

• Absolutely opposed. One should never confuse a principle with the data illustrating how that principle functions. There is a policy, and it is documented. The 'attacks' illustrate that policy or tactic. The fact that articles feature incidents as 'attacks' merely reflects what newspapers do, report of incident after incident. Obvious such articles are not going to be overviews of the general phenomenon, hence the superficial impression that 'WP:Commonname' prefers the language of specific incidents to prevail over the descriptions of the policy. All this suggestion does is confuse the particulars of a set with the set's definition itself. Bad move.Nishidani (talk) 16:48, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - this article is about the overarching policy, described in sources. Yes individual attacks are just called attacks. That doesnt negate the wider topic. nableezy - 16:58, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
• Comment: But isn't talk of 'policy', in of itself, something of a misnomer? The notion of 'policy', without caveats, tends to suggest the official will of government, which is not at all the case here (at least ostensibly); government leaders have officially condemned it. Few sources refer to 'policy' (exception here). I'm open to being convinced, but I've barely seen 'policy' used. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:30, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

  No, policy does not suggest a government action. Private groups and organizations have policies. As far as sources, Guiora, A.N. (2014). Tolerating Intolerance: The Price of Protecting Extremism. Terrorism and global justice series. OUP USA. ISBN 978-0-19-933182-6. The policy implemented by settlers is referred to as "price tag"

  Jerryson, M. (2020). Religious Violence Today: Faith and Conflict in the Modern World [2 volumes]. ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1-4408-5991-5. Price-tag policy is a term used by ...

  * Marteu, E. (2009). Civil Organizations and Protest Movements in Israel: Mobilization around the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Palgrave Macmillan US. ISBN 978-0-230-62174-9. This policy is based on the idea that any withdrawal from the West Bank must bear a significant cost for Israeli decision makers. nableezy - 18:44, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

  In my mind, 'price tag attacks' IS the subject; whatever self-justifying framework of ideology lies behind that is simply the background to the phenomenon. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:33, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Nab. Might be an idea to add those new sources to the page. Nishidani (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Someone should definitely add these sources or similar. Clearly I'm outvoted on this, but as it stands the term 'policy' in the article is both heavily overused and under-sourced. It's all very well saying that it is a 'policy', but the article should actually support this. My objection is that the term 'policy' implies an actual structured framework, which this is not: the 'price tag' language is an umbrella term for when settlers carry out vindictive retributive violence against the Palestinian populace. If there is an actual "policy" at work, it would be the government's policy of turning a blind eye to settler violence, tacitly permitting the military to protect settlers as they go about violence, and not pursuing criminal prosecutions against settlers, but that is not a 'policy' on committing the violence itself. The 'price tag' part is just vigilantism. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:16, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per Nableezy. Number 57 11:06, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, mostly by Nishidani. There is a policy in place; if we move this just to "Price tag attacks" we miss that central point, Huldra (talk) 22:00, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Biased classifications

Why does it solely and repeatedly refer to isreali citizens as “settlers“? Anonymice1 (talk) 00:43, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

the Israeli citizens living outside of Israel in its colonies in the occupied territories are commonly referred to as settlers in reliable sources. nableezy - 01:07, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

can you please provide some? I would assume the most accurate sources would say either immigrant or citizen depending what side they take Anonymice1 (talk) 13:18, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

[4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]. nableezy - 13:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

suggested media

Price tag action in Al-Mughayyir. Arson of cars, house and a fire engine

Aftermath of settlers attack on a sheep pen, Al-Mughayyir, Ramallah April 2024

יורם שורק (talk) 07:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)