Talk:Pope Eleutherius

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Nationality[edit]

My notes say "Albanian." I realize that boundaries and cultures shift, so I don't want to change anything. The names used in the bio here seem Greek to me. Student7 19:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You canot compare ancient greek with todays. Eleutherius was Illyrian.

And educated Illyrians would have used Greek... Assuming he even was Illyrian: the actual sources call him Greek. You've got to balance their native laziness ("sounds Greek")/cultural myopia ("close enough") against the actual cosmopolitan nature of the times. Plenty of Greeks lived in Spain and central Egypt, let alone Nicopolis next door. —

Llywelyn II

13:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia articles do not rely on anyone's notes or opinions.
It relies on serious published works.
The book that is given as reference in the article (Brusher's Popes through the Ages), in p. 26 quotes: "According to the Liber Pontificalis, St. Eleutherius was a Greek fron Nicopolis, Epirus".
Based on the wording of the book referenced here, the relevant text of the article will be changed accordingly.
Wikipedia is not the place for ethnic propaganda.
Actia Nicopolis (talk) 07:13, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced and Heavily POV[edit]

In regards to 'Converting a British King?' Virtually this entire section is unsourced, and vast quantities of the material are heavily POV. Unless sources can be provided, I may remove the section completely. The 'Catholic Reaction to Montanism' is similarly unsourced, and since it has it's own user page and also hardly ties it's relevance with Pope Eleuterus ( other than it says in a verbose way no one knows what Eleuterus did about Montanism), I don't think this section's removal would be missed either. Guldenat 23:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the material you object to is discussed here: [1]. I for one would miss this note about Lucius Rex Britannorum, as it sheds some light on the origins and development of a very old myth which was important to the British church.

Since it discusses various contradictory theories of these origins, I'm not sure that it qualifies as heavily POV. Mildly POV, I'd say. the editor seems to tip his hand toward Harnack by discribing his theory as "more plausible". Remove the words "more plausible" and I think we would have an NPOV scholarly discussion of the origins of this legend. Rwflammang 22:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you clearing that up. I in fact have removed "more plausible", and have also removed the neutrality tag. Guldenat 18:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Still needs more and better sourcing, but the section is the most NOTABLE aspect of the guy's pontificate. Have helped some and at least explained who all the surnames were talking about. — $Llywelyn II$ 13:49, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Simpsons reference[edit]

The contributor who added the reference to the Simpsons episode is mistaken. There is indeed a "St. Eleutherius of Nicomedia" unrelated to Pope Eleuterus, but information on him is scarce -- and non-existant in Wikipedia. The humor in the episode comes from his being such a little known saint. I understand the contributor's excitement to link up the Simpsons reference, which is exactly what led me to hours of research today. However, I am removing this section because it is incorrect.

The real "St. Eleutherius of Nicomedia" was martyred in the year 303, and his feast day is October 2nd. (cf. Pope Eleuterus, d. 189, feast May 26). Eleutherius of Nicomedia was martyred at the height of the Diocletian Persecution. He was a soldier in Emperor Diocletian's army accused of setting fire to the emperor’s palace and was burned to death after being tortured with companions.

References: St. Eleutherius - Catholic Online
October 2 -- today's saints (scroll down to find the following text:
"St. Eleutherius and companions, of Nicomedia (from Asia Minor [Turkish], soldier, martyred c. 303)"

Any other information (especially on Wikipedia) about St. Eleutherius of Nicomedia is appreciated.-- Thisis0 (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pope?[edit]

Why call him Pope if as stated in the article "Pope" the term was not used until later? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifeformnoho (talk • contribs) 22:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Because he was the bishop of Rome and we speak modern English, not 2nd-century Latin or Greek. —

Llywelyn II

13:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

King Lucius[edit]

A lot of the discussion about the reality or not of King Lucius belongs in the 'Lucius of Britain' article rather than here. John O'London (talk) 10:21, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As above, it needed to be reined in but is the most notable thing about the guy's pontificate. —

Llywelyn II

13:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

spelling of name[edit]

Well, after 4 years, I think I can say that there is consensus to move the page, which I have done. (non-admin closure) SkyWarrior 03:19, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this article be titled "Pope Eleutherus" or even "Pope Eleutherius"? In Latin, the Greek θ is transliterated as "th" -- hence Theodorus and not Teodorus. The current spelling may be based on some old 19th century church history. Horatio325 (talk) 08:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Eleutherius" spelling based on a survey of WP:RS through Google hits. In particular, the Catholic Encyclopedia supports this spelling, and is a good example of the "Gold Standard" of reliable sources about historical Catholicism. Not to mention, the Liber Pontificalis itself uses the same spelling in Latin uncial lettering. Elizium23 (talk) 17:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support "Eleutherius", which seems to be the most common spelling. Not at all clear why the original contributor who created this article in 2002 chose the spelling "Eleuterus", since he/she took the text from the Encyclopaedia Britannica 1911, which calls him "Eleutherius"! Would someone like to move it (checking the disambiguation page as well)? John O'London (talk) 18:00, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support changing the article name to "Pope Eleutherius" based on the most common presentation in reliable sources. Bede735 (talk) 00:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. No idea how it got here in the first place. Just remember to fix the spellings within the text afterwards. — $Llywelyn II$ 13:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Liber entry[edit]

Per Knight (p. 14), Loomis's translation of pope's entry in The Book of the Popes:

Eleuther, by nationality a Greek, son of Habundius, from the town of Nicopolis, occupied the see 15 years, 3 months[,] and 2 days. He was bishop in the time of Antoninus and Commodus until the year when Paternus and Bradua were consuls.

He received a letter from Lucius, King of [the Britons], asking him to appoint a way by which Lucius might become a Christian.

He also decreed [no food] should be rejected especially by the Christian faithful, inasmuch as God created it; provided, however, it were rational food [sic] and fit for human kind.

He held 3 ordinations in the month of December, 12 priests, 8 deacons, 15 bishops in divers places.

He also was buried near the body of the blessed Peter in the Batican, May 24.

And the bishopric was empty 15 days.

with a few obvious errors emended in brackets, since Knight claims she used the Brittaniorum rege MS for that section. He notes her use of an alternate MS for the food passage, causing her text to read "He also confirmed again the decree that no kind of food in common use should be..." We can't use it word for word but we should find ways to include the information itself in the article, as well as making a note of any obvious errors or oddities (as with the Lucius episode). — $Llywelyn II$ 15:00, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Book of Llandaff gives the following similar but not identical notice:

Eleutherius, a Greek by birth, and son of Habundius, of the town of Nicopolis, enjoyed the See 15 years, 6 months, and 5 days; it was in the time of Antoninus, and Commodus, and until that of Paternus, and Bradua. He received a letter from Lucius, King of Britain, requesting that by his means he might be made a Christian. He ordained that no poor cottagers, especially those who embraced the Christian faith, should be despised by Christians, because they were created by God, and moreover were rational creatures. He held three ordinations in the month of December, and ordained 12 Presbyters or Priests, 8 Deacons, and 15 Bishops in divers places, and was buried near the body of St. Peter, within the Vatican, on the 25th day of May; and hte See remained vacant 15 days.

Rees's 1840 translation. — $Llywelyn II$ 21:23, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]