Talk:Penalty fare

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Worldwide view[edit]

Penalty fares are not really something that is unique to the United Kingdom; for example, the Stockholm Metro that I use daily employs such a system, as does to my knowledge several other public transport systems in Sweden. Although differences of course exist, sometimes maybe substaintally so – this article really could use a more global perspective.

Now, I'm not sure if this article should just be rewritten and expanded, or if a new article should be started and this one moved to Penalty fare (United Kingdom). Thoughts? - Anarkitekt (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just change the title. That will also avoid the possible false implication that a PF in other countries is not a criminal matter (other legal systems might not truly have a distinction between civil and criminal law).--MBRZ48 (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly relevant text[edit]

The text below was excised from Standard fare, possibly relevant here. - TB (talk) 08:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In Manchester, England, the heaviest standard fare is levvied by the operators of the Metrolink trams and is currently a penalty of £100 levvied on failure to produce an approprate ticket. The same 21 day grace period applies as time to pay, only after expiry of which does it become a criminal offence. Various bus companies (such as Stagecoach and Arriva) levvy a standard fare of between £11 - £25 depending on operator, so Metrolink's draconian policy does seem a little excessive.

It needs more explanatory detail. It might progress to being a criminal offence but if that is in consequence of it being a byelaw offence then it is quite likely to be a non-recordable offence resulting in a fine in a magistrates court but not an entry in or creation of a criminal record. That would still involve a penalty fare but one which leads to prosecution with the opportunity to present a defence if not paid rather than an almost inevitable civil debt; this would seem to compare with the "mitigated penalty" parking ticket system (i.e. if you pay the fine we won't prosecute you) operated by police forces and their associated traffic wardens before in most places being replaced by penalty charges applied by local authorities.MBRZ48 (talk) 02:55, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Civil versus criminal?[edit]

The article says that these are civil penalties, but does this apply within Transport for London services? Their own website says you may be liable for prosecution and a criminal record [1]. There are various news stories of people being prosecuted and receiving a criminal record, instead of an on-the-spot fine [2] [3] [4]. Anyone know more on this, and can we clarify the article? Mdwh (talk) 00:58, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criminal charges can be brought if there is sufficient evidence to support them but (as explained in the article) not in respect of an occasion on which a PF has been applied and discharged.--MBRZ48 (talk) 20:54, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Limitations[edit]

There are certain conditions to be observed if a penalty fare is payable in the UK. In particular both the boarding and destination stations must be "Penalty Fare Stations" for the TOC that the train is provided by. Otherwise it is enough to pay an "excess", generally the full single fare without the PF surcharge. Moreover there are circumstances where it has to be shown that the passenger has wilfully avoided paying. This article needs more research and a decision made on how detailed it needs to be to avoid misleading readers. Note it is not good enough to presume the rail company staff are fully conversant with the rules and incorrect charges make a continuing and fruitful source of discussion on internet forums. 86.143.10.216 (talk) 14:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Russia section[edit]

This needs editing. I found it incomprehensible.ExpatSalopian (talk) 00:56, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cardiff Bus and Nottingham Express Transit[edit]

The conditions of carriage for Cardiff Bus refer to a "penalty fare": https://www.cardiffbus.com/conditions-of-carriage

But I think the signs on the buses refer to a "standard fare"? (I can't check because of local lockdown.)

So which is it? I don't think Cardiff Bus have authority to impose statutory penalty fares.

Nottingham Express Transit's signs (and conditions) refer to a "penalty fare" - do they have statutory authority to levy such? https://www.thetram.net/penalty-fares.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncriticalsimon (talk • contribs) 20:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]