In most of the Spanish speaking world, the spanish word "parrilla" means grill. Why should "parrilla" on Wikipedia automatically lead to an obscure torure instrument? Seeing as the name of this torture instrument is derived from the grill itself, shouldn't "parrilla" logically lead to parrilla meaning the grill with a small link to the more obscure secondary meaning of the word? People who are searching for information on "parrilla" is more likeloy to be searching for info on the grill rather than the torture instrument. If in doubt, google "parrilla" and choose image search. You will find a bunch of photos of grills, but no torture instruments. Poiuy998 (talk) 16:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The page explains that in the opening paragraph. This is an English speaking wiki, if someone searches for "grill" they will get grill. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 20:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
English speaking people who are interested in food and food practices from different countries around the world, are interested to know about objects and practices that often is described by words in that other country's language. Sushi is one example, taco another. And as the world becomes smaller, other countries practices enter into other countries vocabularies. At the moment I am not sure if a lot of North Americans, Europeans, Africans or Asians are using the word "parrilla" very much, but then on the other hand, they do not treat their grilled meat the way South Americans do anyway. A babrecue is one thing, an asado or a parrilla something other. If you want to know about the latin-American tradition of the parrilla for example, you would use exactly that term, and not the North American term "barbecue" or even the more general term "grill" or "grilling" that surely includes much more than just the word "parrilla". Clearly the tradition of the parrilla needs space on Wikipedia. Where is the Wiki page about "parrilla" (the South American grill and not the torture instrument)?
The messy situation as it is now is that if someone searches for "parrilla" they will get a completely obscure torture instrument rather than a South American type of grill (that should be called by its proper name "parrilla" and not "barbecue" or "grill" seeing as this particular type of grilling is completely different from North American) , that is both illogical and rather useless. How many people typing the word "parrilla" into Wikipedia or Google for that matter is looking for torture instruments as opposed to info about the unique South American grill culture and its practices? I understand that experts on torture instruments may not be interested in food related topics, but clearly the word "parrilla" normally refers to a type of grill that prepares animal protein for eating in the southern hemisphere and not an object of torture who gets its name from this grill itself. Just this latter fact alone should indicate which came first, the grill or the torture instrument. The torture instrument would not be called "parrilla" had it not been for the fact that this word means "grill" in Chile and possibly other South American countries.
Also, if you want to avoid using Spanish words on the English Wikipedia, why not call this particular torture instrument "the grill" and not "parrilla" (It should be called "la parrilla" anyway if you wanted to be gramatically correct, "the grill" and not just "grill")? Curiously Pinochet had other torture practices to his disposal as well, one of them was called "el teléfono" which means "the telephone". Does this mean that "teléfono" on the Spanish Wikipedia should automatically lead to a this particular torture technique, or that "telephone" should automatically lead to this torture technique on the English Wikipedia? Now, we don't need a page for "teléfono" on the English WP because we have a word that covers the meaning in English. But the word "parrilla" is unique, and is not covered by the general "grill". Remember, "parrilla" is not just the grill itself, but also restaurants that serve food prepared in that fashion.
If other people would care to spend a few minutes thinking about this matter maybe we can get a consensus on directing "parrilla" to a page about this type of grill (and grilling traditions), or at the very minimum to a disambiguation page.
Poiuy998 (talk) 22:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Question: How are we to disambiguate if the other page does not exist? I have personally never heard of this, but if it really is so different from what North America considers a "grill" then it probably should have it's own article, but there is no sense discussing redirecting and disambiguating until the other article actually exists. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*I don't see any specific information on this device at the grill or barbecue articles, but would this be what we are talking about? It certainly is different from what most Americans and Canadians consider a grill.Beeblebrox (talk) 23:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I could try to find some time to try to make a page on parrilla, I just wanted to voice my opinion here before I did so. Indeed I believe "parrilla" is an important culinary concept apart from BBQ or "grill". The article about BBQ is full of controversy whether it should cover North America only or the whole concept of "grilling". The problem of parrilla is that if you Google the word, the main WP article is about a torture instrument named after the grill and not the grill itself. I just think that choosing a torture instrument that is named after a grill as the main direction for the name of the grill itself is not very logical. Poiuy998 (talk) 02:40, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I just did a Google search, and the first hit I got was Parilla, which is a disambiguation page for this term. So now we just need an article to disambiguate to on the grill. So, is it the thing in the picture, or is it something else? Beeblebrox (talk) 02:44, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But you spell the word "parilla" and not "parrilla". Try again, and check the image search on Google, and I think you will see what I mean. Look at the discrepancy...In Google the WP enrty is the top hit, and it describes a torture instrument. But all the other entries are about the grill. In other words I think the culinary meaning is more important than the torture instruments. But if we at least get an disambiguation page, that would solve the problem. Poiuy998 (talk) 02:49, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, that is what I did and I do see what you mean. However, my search also brought up this [1]. If this is what we are discussing, I fail to see how it is different than other outdoor charcoal/wood grills. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
After looking around [2] this site some more, it looks like "parrilla" is being used as a generic word for a wide variety of grills, the same way "grill" is used in the States. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and changed Parrilla into a dab page, if you can whip up an article about the South American variety it can be linked from there. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nice one. I will try and get the grill page updated. Just to be clear: A parrilla is a grill. It is the Spanish word for this culinary tool (In Brazil the word for a grill is churrasqueira). But grilling is different in South America than in the US, Europe or other parts of the world. Also, the word does not mean just the grill itself, but for instance places (restaurants) that serve grilled food in the relevant countries. In addition, an important concept is the "parrilada" which is a specific dish. I just think that WP is a place for more, not less, information. And my worries are for the culinary interested people that wants to know the difference betwwen a BBQ that you find in a North American grill or steak house, and an asado that you find in a parrilla. I did not know that "la parrilla" was a term for a torture instrument before I searched Google for info on South American BBQ. That WP has no info on the authentic meaning of parrilla is a shame. If you were to ask BBQ enthusiasts in the US, I think they would be happy that the term BBQ, which indeed is a north American term, is reserved for North American grilling. Poiuy998 (talk) 03:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am not anti foreign language words on en.wikipedia. My point was that you would have it link directly to the page for "grill", which states nothing about the South American concept of parrilla. Pages should be created for the specific uses, especially the history of its usage as a surname and the concept of the South American grill. So if an English speaker, wants to find info on a grill, they will search for grill not parrilla. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 12:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I changed Parilla and Parrilla back into disambiguation pages; it refers to more than just the grill itself, but also a particular type of restaurant in Argentina & surrounding area serving "parrillas", a particular type of dish (like mixed grill, sort of) for which there is really no equivalent English term. Having a disambiguation page is a good compromise; I think it's likely that many people searching for the term, even in English, are not searching for the torture method. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 17:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
