Talk:Paradises Lost

Infobox

@Neptune's Trident: I noticed you added an infobox to this article, but honestly I'm not too sure that it's helpful, as there isn't much information that can be included that isn't in the first sentence or two of the body. Thoughts? Vanamonde (talk) 10:24, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

I think it's fine as is. I added a couple more things to the infobox. Infoboxes are like semicolons, some people like the look of them, some don't. Neptune's Trident (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

I like it. Among other things, it helps readers with disabilities. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the disability aspect, and it looks much better with the image inside, thanks. Vanamonde (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Paradises Lost/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 13:54, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I'll take this one. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:54, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

This is a clear and informative article on a novella, with a helpful summary for those of us who read it a long time ago, and a properly-cited account of its reception. My comments will therefore be brief.

Comments

boldly going, etc

spaceship...

• Lead image. Well, ok. Would be nice to have a more specific image of some kind, and yes I know the problem. We could even be cheeky and use a cropped version of something like this NASA cover. Or a spaceship with a suitable caption about Le Guin imagining the psychology of interplanetary travel.

• I was actually very pessimistic about this at first, but while addressing your point below, I came across the image here; and I wonder if this would qualify for a fair-use rationale. It is a nice image, if rather vague in what it's actually showing.

It's good. Since there isn't a separate article for the opera I guess its poster would be fine for an NFUR. Perhaps best to create a redirect to this article from Paradises Lost (opera) while you're about it, and maybe put that in boldface in the lead, too!

• Okay, I've done this, though I didn't use boldface a second time because the opera is also referred to simply as "Paradises Lost". Two questions for you. First, I am not very well-versed with NFUR, so could you take a look at the image? Second, should I still include the image of Le Guin somewhere?

Done. If you feel you'd like to have Le Guin gracing the page, I'm not opposed. Personally I don't think it's generally necessary in a book page (I've done quite a few book GAs myself), perhaps a first novel would be the most easily justifiable case.

• In the quote "a "deft instantiation of the classic "power chord" of generation starship"" I'm afraid I have simply no idea of what is being said. Pure word salad. Since presumably you find this quote conveys some useful meaning and criticism, give me and the other readers a helping hand as to what that meaning may be, please.

• I guess it seemed to convey meaning without actually being a sentence? Anyhow, I've changed it to "was a "deft" example of the "classic "power chord"" of stories set on generation ships" which is I think the best we can do to make it both meaningful and true to the source.

• ""Paradises Lost" argues that any attempt to create a utopia" - not sure that a novella should be said to "argue" - an essay or polemic may do that: a novella perhaps "implies" or "hints".

• I've modified it to "suggests." does that work?

That's fine.

• "unorthodox sexual relationships": I was surprised not to find anything much to link to here. A wikilink to Ursula K. Le Guin#Sociology, anthropology and psychology is possible but even that doesn't say much. Maybe scope to create and follow up on a redlink for Sexuality in the works of Ursula K. Le Guin here...

• Good idea, done. Maybe I'll create that one day.

• Pubs and adaptations: It would be nice to have a review of the opera rather than just Le Guin's own comment on it, if there is one.

• Yes indeed, it would be, but I searched then and I'm searching again now and I'm unable to find anything. I think part of the issue, which is actually not in any of the sources, is that this is an inside-the-university production of some sort: it is not fully commercial, and has therefore not received attention. There are a bunch of sources which mention its existence, but I can find little to nothing in the way of reliable reviews. This is the best I have, and I'm not very happy about any of them: this, which is not actually providing any commentary except in the title; this, which also has no commentary; and this, which does not seem reliable. The best of the lot is possibly this, but even that is not something I would usually consider a reliable source. Thoughts?

The last one is indeed the best. I think the Poetry Foundation a pretty quiet, literary site with common sense, while Jeremy Axelrod seems a decent enough writer with a bit of notability: probably enough for a short mention, which after all we are not relying on here for anything structural. I'd use it.

Okay, done.

• Sources: no need for access dates for books and papers.

• done, I believe

• Categories mentioning "novels": guess that's close enough for government work! Don't seem to be many cats for novellas. No action is required.

• It is strange, is it not? I was rather tempted to create a bunch of relevant categories, but our whole category tree is such a mess that I decided to avoid it.

Mmm.

Minor tweaks

• Not sure if we should be using "thereof", it sounds archaic, so "the children's version thereof" could better be something like "a children's version".

• changed to the slightly wordier "the children's version of the same term"

• Don't much like "This leads to him uncovering" either. The pedantic version which I do still use would be "This leads to his uncovering"; better probably is "This leads him to uncover".

• good call, done

• Similarly, "despite it being" should be "despite its being". Or better "even though it is".

• Likewise

• "different to" would probably be better as "different from".

• Actually confused about where you're seeing this phrase, my ctrl+f didn't find it...

Now where are my spectacles?

• " question those beliefs, believing": perhaps better to avoid the repetition.

• changed to "question those beliefs, and hold that"

Summary

This article is well up to the required standard and I'm happy to award it a GA. There is scope for some interesting articles to explore and summarize critical inquiries and academic research into Le Guin's work, such as the examination of sexuality in her novels and novellas. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:24, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

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