Talk:Owen Benjamin/Archive 1

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Notability Tag

Wow, so this talk page vanished. Anyway I this Owen Benjamin meets notability requirements.--0pen$0urce (talk) 08:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC) Someone drive by tagged this and didn't discuss. Please see guidelines on tagging, don't just tag without explanation.Removing Tag.--0pen$0urce (talk) 08:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


Why does this person have a page on Wikipedia? He's dated Christina Ricci and that seems about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.229.109 (talk) 01:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

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Edit request: remove or at least place elsewhere pointless sentence in Personal Life section

"His website, HugePianist.com, is a play on words on the fact that he is a trained pianist and stands 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m) tall."

While that is his website's URL (owenbenjamin.com redirects there), it seems pointlessly patronizing to explain how it is a play on words and the two facts that involve it either aren't notable on their own or should be mentioned elsehwere.

181.115.8.231 (talk) 21:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2018

May be worth noting that it says Owen was born in 1980, then to the right, it says he was born in 1960, and that he's 58. 2600:6C51:7C7F:C221:0:E940:5583:C44D (talk) 12:21, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

 Already done --Danski454 (talk) 13:03, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

This Sentence Just Looks/Feels Wrong

"Scheduled shows of his have been cancelled and he has been suspended from Twitter on account of this behavior"

I know just enough grammar to be considered dangerous, so I could be wrong here, but the construction "scheduled shows of his" seems/feels wrong to me in terms of Readability. I think "his scheduled shows" is more positive, more direct. Also I don't like the word "behavior" to describe what happens on Twitter. The word "behavior" has connotations of physicality, and does not seem appropriate for an electronic speech environment. It would be more accurate to say that he's been "suspended from Twitter" for his "speech". "Behavior" could also be a euphemism to hide the fact that his speech is being censored. One corrects, or punishes the "behavior" of a child who doesn't know how to control themselves, but one censors the speech of a comedian whose speech is politically incorrect. Obviously the text is source-driven, but still I wonder if it can be tweaked to attempt to remove at least some of the bias, or at least make the text grammatically correct. Tym Whittier (talk) 18:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Why is this article locked from editing?

86.93.208.34 (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Because the article reads like a propaganda leaflet. "Alt-right comentator" ? Any impartial source for that?

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2019

Make mention of his antisemitism 37.26.148.168 (talk) 17:56, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Begoon 07:11, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

[1]


Seriously, you need to sort this out:

"For example, Benjamin has told his audience on YouTube that it is “infinitely more probable” that the Nazis over-worked Jews to death during the Holocaust than it was that they subjected them to execution in gas chambers. He went on to say that he was “a big fan” of Nazi Party leader Adolf Hitler’s art.

“Really what he was trying to do was clean Germany, clean it of the parasites, of the fleas. He did not hate Jews. He hated filth and he was trying to clean up,” Benjamin said."

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamins-rhetoric-is-growing-more-extreme/

https://vimeo.com/325019623 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.198.31 (talk) 16:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

 Already done MrClog (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Owen's anti-semitism". Vimeo.

Source discussion

ModerateMikayla555, Forbes contributed pieces (those which have "contributor (i)" in the byline) are unreliable, see WP:RSP. wumbolo ^^^ 09:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Is pittsburgh city paper better? They refer to him using the same language. ModerateMikayla555 (talk) 03:00, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
@ModerateMikayla555: yes, but headlines are unreliable. If it is not in the source's body, it should not be cited. wumbolo ^^^ 08:32, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2019

Owen lives on the west coast, now. 67.249.173.160 (talk) 03:09, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. aboideautalk 13:15, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Name change?

The subject’s birth name was apparently "Smith.” No mention of when or why he began to go by the name of Benjamin. Orthotox (talk) 20:32, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2019

2605:E000:8840:AC00:F53D:58FB:2387:D296 (talk) 00:10, 23 May 2019 (UTC)Why don't you say Owen is a Good father, loving husband, he works hard with his hands. He is 1 in 10,000 is it? An IQ of 147. These are the things people need to hear also about owen. Try to understand the the way he looks at life, he is on a different wavelength I believe, able to see things and present them in such a truthful way, most people can't handle it. That's what I see in Owen in 2019, in a brief... 2605:E000:8840:AC00:F53D:58FB:2387:D296 (talk) 00:10, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: The relevance of any of this information would need to be explained by reliable sources, which would almost certainly also have to be independent sources. Grayfell (talk) 00:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Source and claim issue

Footnote [24] cites https://www.jta.org/2019/04/08/opinion/how-did-conservative-comedian-owen-benjamin-became-a-darling-of-the-alt-right as a source for writing "Benjamin has also posted fabricated verses from the Talmud to demonize Jews". The given source does not contain any evidence for said claims, and the said source is an opinion article, that I reiterate, does not contain any sources for this claim, as it's an opinion piece and clearly identified as such. Either an actual source should be made, or the passage itself reworked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.246.143.100 (talk) 03:05, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2019

I would like to request the ability to add to the content of this page. Wer23567 (talk) 18:28, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

@Wer23567: Please read and follow the instructions. You need to give a complete and specific description of the edit you wish to make. Railfan23 (talk) 18:30, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
@Wer23567: The edit semi-protected template is not for requesting access to edit a page but a template to request a change be made to a page. Semi-protected pages can be edited by any autoconfirmed account (an account that is at least four days old and has made at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed account. Alduin2000 (talk) 23:09, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Removal of content

I removed a paragraph or two that mention some gross and antisemitic comments he made on his YouTube. Such things need to be provided with secondary sources, for various reasons--one of them being that if "person X said Y" is legitimate if sourced with a link to person X's YouTube channel, we might as well include everything. Drmies (talk) 02:10, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2019

Owen Benjamin is an American conspiracy theorist and a controversial stand-up comedian. Happymerchant (talk) 03:03, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Which is what the article says. What change are you requesting? Railfan23 (talk) 03:11, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
☒N Nothing to do. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 04:08, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2019

The Antisemitism claims are incorrect. He should be able to sue you people for this. 72.65.123.82 (talk) 00:23, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Melmann 08:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Engagement to Christina Ricci

@Jpgordon: I noticed this recent removal by you, and I was wondering why you consider it gossip? It seems both true and appropriately sourced, when gossip normally implies untrue or unverified. While I would certainly agree on the removal if they had merely dated, the fact that they were engaged and their engagement was covered in multiple reliable sources would seem to be adequate for inclusion in my opinion. What do you think? – Wallyfromdilbert (talk) 19:37, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Why is it the least bit important that this person was briefly engaged to some actress many years ago? Gossip doesn't imply untrue or unverified, certainly. In this case, it's idle talk about the private lives of other people. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 20:44, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Formal engagements are significant acts, and breaking off an engagement is a big deal in most people's lives. Also, they were engaged for over 3 months, which is not a brief engagement. "Personal life" details in a Wikipedia article are usually going to be about a person's private life, and some biographies even have a "relationship" section. This is not "idle talk" (at least in the usual sense of that phrase), but instead a factual statement about a major change in Benjamin's relationship status. This type of information is routinely covered in other biographies, as well as non-tabloid news. Do you think that no engagements are relevant to biographies or is the issue that the engagement never resulted in a marriage? Wallyfromdilbert (talk) 21:41, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to reduce it to the earlier mention of Ricci: In 2009, he played the lead role in the romantic comedy All's Faire in Love, co-starring with Christina Ricci (to whom he was briefly engaged). The sources provided there already are the ones the later mention was using. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 00:47, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the engagement belongs as part of his personal life rather than his career. If you feel that it needs to be short, what about: "In March 2008, he and Christina Ricci announced they were engaged, but they ended their engagement two months later." –Wallyfromdilbert (talk) 03:12, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2019

Remove "Falsehood" from the section titled "Falsehoods and Controversial Statements". These are normally called "conspiracy theories." You may say argue that he has little evidence for transgender rights being a UN eugenics program, but you would be hardpressed to establish its falsity (proving a negative). More importantly, your links don't establish "falsity" of these claims, or even try to. 73.114.21.8 (talk) 01:23, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: Wikipedia doesn't validate WP:FRINGE nonsense. Do not reopen this template until you have consensus. Grayfell (talk) 02:18, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2019

Owen is not affiliated with any political group so alt-right statement is incorrect. He does not make statements about jews and LGBT. He makes jokes about them to make a point about free speech and liberty. He is against child abused and sees as so administrating hormones to child below 9 years old. Kauedb (talk) 07:27, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not an edit request in the required format. You need to specify precisely what you want changed. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2019

Qwen Benjamin is NOT Alt-Right. 128.227.212.177 (talk) 20:38, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Sceptre (talk) 20:44, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

He is a flat earther

He was a main speaker of the "Flat Earth International Conference (USA) 2019" https://flatearthconference.com/featuring/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:FA:AF09:2270:74E6:8D3D:A3B:3B81 (talk) 06:50, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Talmud Verses mention

@The Mirror Cracked: My reasoning for first deleting the information with a suggestion to add it back with attribution, and then by adding attribution to the information after my edit was reverted is based on RS: "A prime example of this is opinion pieces in sources recognized as reliable. When using them, it is best to clearly attribute the opinions in the text to the author and make it clear to the reader that they are reading an opinion."

The source is on the opinion section of the website and the page itself notes: "The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of JTA or its parent company, 70 Faces Media." This means that the article's credibility relies on the author, not the hosting agency. This is why attribution is appropriate. The source is an opinion article. If you can find a RS that is not an opinion article then there would be no need for attribution. Otherwise there is, according to RS. AaronMP84 (talk) 21:51, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

I tend to agree that is it not appropriate to use an opinion article without in-text attribution. Opinion pieces are not subject to the same editorial oversight, and we are using it to make a serious negative claim about a living person. I also removed "to demonize Jews" as I could not find support for that in the article. I think it may be useful to include some additional information from the source, as it goes into the common perception that he has become more extreme and less comedic, which seems to be a increasingly frequent in reports about him. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2020

After observing Owen Benjamin for some time, it is clear that he is "Right-Leaning", and not , by Wikipedia definition, "Alt-Right". In these dangerous times, it would seem clarity is VERY important to ensuring people's safety and therefore, I suggest this minor, yet crucial change. Jeff The Aussie (talk) 11:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Your opinion is not a reliable source. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:39, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2020

Requesting a citation needed for the accusation of Benjamin Owen being alt right at the end of the first paragraph, as there are no sources are listed for the claim per Wikipedia's rules. Unbiasedpredator (talk) 18:23, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The statement is sourced. Danski454 (talk) 18:52, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2020

To any wiki mod that sees this, you're basically asking someone to "prove" he's not alt right, a label given onto him by you. Please source your claims if you're going to add it in the article at least. Telling people "your opinion is not a reliable source" is rather hypocritical if you refuse to show sources for the opposing argument, no? Unbiasedpredator (talk) 18:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The statement that Benjamin is alt-right is supported by sources. To change that, we would require sources that state otherwise. Danski454 (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Struck some parts, as I didn't fully read the request. The statement had no inline citation when this request was made (although sources used in the body called him alt-right), but sources have since been added. Danski454 (talk) 19:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Update: in addition, you seem to have quickly scoured the internet for any source you could find to back up the claim. Using a guilty until proven innocent modus operandi is incredibly dishonest. https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/ In the source there are no personal comments, no self identifying remarks, at no point does Owen Benjamin claim to be alt right. I find the bias on this page to be on the extremes, no wonder you have to be approved to edit.

Nice one. You are unbiased but you didn't even fully read the request. Really shows what's going on here.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbiasedpredator (talk • contribs) 19:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

(Moved the updated request into chronological order, it is difficult to follow the order of events when comments are amended) We should maybe attribute this inline, since it is a somewhat contentious label. – Thjarkur (talk) 20:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Citations look fine to me, though I would also support simply "right-wing" if alt-right is too contentious. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:55, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Are mods here just absolutely insane? There’s a clear distinction between alt right, and right wing. These ‘sources’ are a complete joke and simply points at the guy while calling him alt right. Benjamin has no clear ties to any alt right groups or individuals based on the sources given. Recommend updating the article as this entire talk page is just filled with requests to edit this very contentious point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbiasedpredator (talk • contribs) 05:52, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

He's Not Alt-Right

In the first 2 minutes of this interview Owen Benjamin categorically denies being Alt-Right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fbxhl-qbT0

So is that something the press (and Wikipedia editors) can determine about a person when the person says they're not? ElizaBarrington (talk) 09:37, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

As dialectical exploration (Benjamin's oeuvre)

A placement somewhere in the article - perhaps in the antisemitic or flat earth section - of Benjamin's dialectical process should be mentioned - for many reasons - would bring the whole page together and settle context of all the controversy vs zeitgeist. He is the son of two tertiary level Professors after all (his intellectualism is lost in media headline branding/blackballing). See Identity politics, Satire, The Emperor's New Clothes, Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry, Dialectic. The inherent application of comedy to society has historically a de facto truthyness that is being eroded with social media & limited ownership of mass media opportunities (See "Gatekeeper (disambiguation)").

"Owen Benjamin has publically stated he is a proponent of free speech and for the dialectical exploration of what is considered "taboo" or "politically incorrect". This lens of "dialectical exploration" should be used upon all of Benjamin's more controversial "antisemitic" statements - both as a comedian and as critic in the 21st century situ." (See WDTL799, & nightstream). Text mdnp (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

All of this looks like original research, and it looks like it verges on WP:FORUM, which is not allowed on talk pages. If your content is not based on reliable published sources, then it is not appropriate to include on Wikipedia. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 21:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
I have sources but need to read more about thirdpartyness to those sources (& html to link) ... his page does need a reminder he is a well established comedian (& dialectic is inherent to that situ) ... "everything is political" ... thank-you for the assist Text mdnp (talk) 21:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
I believe in Wikipedia's editing policy ... I am in no way inventing a "original research/discussion/persuasion value" to mutate the article - I am using the article's 'talk' page to perhaps get an assist on bettering the article (pure & simple) Text mdnp (talk) 21:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
The entire antisemitic section should be removed. Too sensational & source/quote heavy that does non fit typical good article structure (Wikiquote is for that?) Text mdnp (talk) 07:29, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Benjamin's jokes should not be conflated with his views.

Benjamin's comedy is intentionally absurd and often provocative. Just because he joked that the moon landing was a hoax doesn't mean that he sincerely believes it was a hoax. Likewise, he might claim that he wants to bring back slavery, but that was clearly a dig at Shaun King. When writing a biography of a living person, especially a comedian, it's important to differentiate between what's real and what's not. I suggest erring on the side of caution, and taking much of what Benjamin says with a grain of salt. Humor, especially bad humor, should not be conflated with sincerely held views. Good examples of Wikipedia articles that do not have this issue include Dave Chappelle and Andy Kaufman. –Sebanderson (talk) 21:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

We can dig through WDTL & source his quotes on these things - the whole article needs tidying up. I just deleted the anti-semitic section (as too passionate & tabloid'esque in sources/rhetoric vs a reasoned stance?) Text mdnp (talk) 07:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Delete anti-Semitic section as has become a tabloid style mess

Wikipedia & Comedy deserve better than this unusual inclusion of obscure websites as sources in the article's very text vs a standard reference tag? Text mdnp (talk) 21:30, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

In Benjamin's comedy special 'Art Before The Horse', he makes fun of a post-NAZI legacy in culture & infrastructure ... is he anti NAZI or anti Semitic? The views section has become a farce - we must wiki-standardise the subject's tropes/grammar vs zeitgeist/fashion lexicons to clear the article. I say we delete & absorb a condensed version of the anti-semitic sub-section into the Views section? Text mdnp (talk) 21:30, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
Content on Wikipedia is base on reliable sources. To the best of my knowledge and based by community consensus at WP:RSP, most sources in this section are generally reliable. Could you describe in particular which of these sources you deem unreliable for these purposes and why?
In addition, Wikipedia is not based on WP:Original Research. It is totally possible that Benjamin is doing something complicated in his work, but we must base that judgment on what exists in RS. Do you have secondary sources that describe this? Jlevi (talk) 21:43, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
The website sources being included in the very text vs a "cherry picking nature" is non objective/consistent to what I have experienced with article quality & WP:Original Research in the past. There is actual & lateral evidence of passionate article muddling here. "Anti-Semitic" subject reflects the complicated passions of the land-bridge/silk road politics "Semitism" is. I am non "soap boxing/forum/weasel words" here &c.
A condensed absorption of 'Anti-Semitic' section into 'Views' could look like this:
Benjamin in his live shows & streams has expressed many ideas that some outlets claim supports anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.[1]
Thank'you for the assist Jlevi. Text mdnp (talk) 22:29, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
"Insider Inc." using the term "White Nationalist" is OK here? Text mdnp (talk) 22:36, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
New intro sentence to views section could look like this: "Using a classical moral stance & dialectical lens to explore zeitgeist taboos, his comedy is intentionally offensive and frequently uses slurs. Benjamin describes his comedy as a ..." Text mdnp (talk) 22:48, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
"Classical moral stance"; "dialectical lens"; "zeitgeist taboos", these terms challenged/questioned with WP:WEASEL? Text mdnp (talk) 22:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
"Some outlets claim" is falsely implying that this is disputed by other sources, or that this is a subjective opinion. Sources support this in direct language. When reliable sources say something, Wikipedia reflects that without editorializing on how much of a claim it is. Your personal interpretation of Benjamin's "moral stance" etc. is original research. The burden is on you to cite reliable sources for all of this flattering cruft. Otherwise, we are not interested in that, and this isn't the place to share these perspectives.
To repeat for clarity, we are interested in summarizing reliable sources. Editorializing by casting doubt on reliable sources based on first-hand opinions is inappropriate. Further, we are mainly interested in independent sources, and Benjamin should not be directly cited as reliable source without attribution and context, which must be provided by a reliable source. Grayfell (talk) 23:07, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Einbinder, Nicole. "White nationalists continue to post on Instagram, despite a new Facebook policy banning such content". Insider Inc. Retrieved 14 April 2019.
With Editorializing/OR aspect, see Benjamin's podcast WDTL799 (& nightstream) for his discussing dialectic & being the son of two professors; see WDTL930's "I make fun of everybody" (ts38m18s). I will draft a "more anti-antisemitic" section that omits sources from the actual article text & is just the ref-tag as should of been originally. Sources being included in the article's actual text reads corny/sensationalized/tabloid to me. That is what I was trying to do initially. Thank'you for the assist. Text mdnp (talk) 00:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Not really fair in a BLP to say he has antisemitic conspiracy theories and memes without telling readers what those theories/ memes are. Even the sources cited don’t explain what those ideas are. Raquel Baranow (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Benjamin's podcast is almost never going to be a reliable source. Joe Rogan isn't a reliable source, either. Any quotes from podcasts should be directly supported by a reliable sources, or should be uncontroversially relevant to an issue raised by a reliable, independent source. Articles are based on reliable and independent sources. Your personal interpretation of Benjamin's comments, or Rogan's for that matter, are not usable. This is not a platform for sharing your personal interpretation of sources, because your interpretation of sources is original research. Per WP:PRIMARY: Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so. If reliable, independent sources discuss Benjamin's views on Nazism, summarize those sources with as little analyzes as possible. Grayfell (talk) 07:05, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Cheers for the assist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Text mdnp (talk) 19:38, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
"Benjamin's podcast is almost never going to be a reliable source" ... really? Text mdnp (talk) 19:38, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, really. We cannot use unreliable WP:PRIMARY sources to demonstrate importance, or for any information which requires interpretation. Very basic biographical information might be supported by a podcast. This means things like birth year, name of schools attended, country of birth, and not much else. Even then, it is always better to use independent sources. Grayfell (talk) 20:08, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
OK thank'you for the assist. I am reading about reliable third party sources. I non wish to troll here as I understand the guideline's "psi process" to 'anti-semitic' views sub-section staying as is. User talk:Grayfell stated above "We cannot use unreliable WP:PRIMARY sources to demonstrate importance" - as an article about a comedian involved in gate keeper media politics why would the very article subject's direct comedy experience be "unreliable"? This talk page's assist function (non being a OR/"personal opinion"/forum) to clear up the article is touching upon the very feedback issues for his comedy reinforcing persecution tropes - & is why this article needs clearing up regarding the inherent dialectical process comedy has to social issues? That in the "anti-semitic views" section, the listed source "Insider Inc." using the term "White Nationalist" is OK here projects a bending of public psi life where permitted sources seems arbitrarily selective to slyly skew the article which is illkeeping with a objective stance to the article's very existence - & with Wikipedia's de facto mainstream use vs Wikipedia being non permitted in legally binding arenas we have again a feedback loop to the "anti-semitic" views tabloid style sub-section being a travesty to Wikipedia's very existence? Text mdnp (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
This talk page is not a forum for discussion on philosophy or rhetoric.
If you have a reliable source discussing the "dialectical process comedy has to social issues" and that source discusses this in relation to Owen Benjamin then you should propose it to this talk page.
Otherwise, please get to the point. Grayfell (talk) 21:14, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
A good Wikipedia article should use archonic language to express the subject - & non use a zeitgiest's tabloid style superficial fleeting terminology & pazuzu'd identity politics? The Anti-semitic sub section features subpar sources & is expressed in a non objective manner - as a Wikipedia article should (be objective*). I am reporting some of those sites as hate-speech to my local authorities. Thank'you. I hope the psi flow of the article/talk remains intact. I will refrain from posting here untill I have drafted a more objective 'views sub-section' text. Text mdnp (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC) (* Text mdnp (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2020 (UTC))

The page should accurately reflect the extremist hate filled views expressed by Benjamin

Benjamin is now a full on holocaust denying, racist neo-nazi. The page unfortuantely does not convey this serious racist that Benjamin has now become. Moreover Benjamin is a disinformation machine, spewing daily lies on his platforms that still remain.

TruthBuster21223 (talk) 23:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Find reliable sources that describe this behaviour and do so! Bear in mind that Wikipedia at time falls behind current events--it often cannot reflect recent events, and it cannot reflect events that are not covered in the news. For this reason, descriptions of individuals at times fall behind their current patterns of behaviour, and that is expected. I don't know whether what you describe is reflected in RSes right now, so you'll need to do a little legwork to add your proposed content. Feel free to ask me for help if you need any feedback or suggestions. Jlevi (talk) 23:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The "views" section needs to be cleaned up a bit to read more like a Wikipedia article rather than a news story &c. This is happening more & more with Wikipedia where the "views/personal life/controversy" sub sections become just a ill-suited rehash of news/tabloids reports instead of the archetypal serious tone to a article. These are articles on a subject non a news delivery service &c. Text mdnp (talk) 20:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Removal of material sourced to unreliable websites

I recently removed three unreliable sources and inaccurate information sourced to them. I am leaving this comment here primarily for TruthBuster21223, who incorrectly stated those sources were "established papers with their own pages" (none of them appear to actual published newspapers). The first source is Rewire News Group, an online news site. It is not clear what their editorial oversight is and they do not seem to distinguish articles written by staff and those submitted to them by email. Regardless, the source says "One, posted by Owen Benjamin pleads, 'I did not want to kill Jews. But they have given us no other option... the Jew—with his genocidal instincts—is insistent on poking the bear.'" No additional information is provided at all regarding this quote, and there is nothing to suggest that the "Owen Benjamin" is the same person as the subject of this page. I could also find no other source for this quote at all on Google. Without more information, that is clearly not reliable for inclusion, especially for a quote like that. The second source is an opinion piece from GOD TV (although the website does not appear to distinguish between opinion articles and more "news" oriented content), and the single sentence mentioning Benjamin is, "For example some of comedian, Owen Benjamin's comments could lead people to violence." Nowhere does the article call him a "hateful antisemite". The third source appears to just be a random website, and I'm not sure how its content would be noteworthy at all, and especially as a source for an inflammatory label. For highly contentious information, I think it would be beneficial if everyone looked critically at the sources, especially when restoring content. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 00:01, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

JTA is considered a legitimate source. The fact you are so obsessed with giving Benjamin a false image, hiding his quotes from Right Wing Watch, and views is extremely suspicious. Just because it is Jewish, that does not automatically mean it is unreliable. I understand removing the other sources, but Bethany Mendel , while a conservative, is not considered completely unreliable. If your name is any indication of your political views, then it is clear you are highly biased and attempting to push a political narrative on Wikipedia. TruthBuster21223 (talk) 19:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)— TruthBuster21223 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
The opinion article by Bethany Mandel from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency was never removed. I shortened it to remove the phrase "blaming Jewish people for every societal ill" (diff). Considering you are a single-purpose account who has almost exclusively edited this article, I think you need to focus less on attacking other editors who don't agree with your perspective on what an encyclopedic biography should look like. I personally think the quotes are still excessive in the article. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 03:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

The page does not accuracately convey Owen Benjamin Smith

Owen Benjamin is no longer a "comedian". For years now he has been a far right, holocaust denying conspiracy theorist. There are 5+ articles from reliable sources, including non-profits (SPLC) and regular news that describe him as such. As of now, the article does not convey that Benjamin no longer is simply a 'comedian'and he no longer performs shows. Moreover, he is more so a 'former' actor than an actor as he has not been involved in film in years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthBuster21223 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

The article has been cleaned up to keep in line with a objective wikipedia page - & is watched closely to stay clean. Comedians are inherently - & sometimes invisibly - a deeply philosophical area of society - see "dialectic"/"safe space" ... sometimes we forget that with political fashions/passions. Benjamin has naturally found more relevant platforms where his content has more positive flow. The article does need balancing that Benjamin is non really against any one group - he just likes deconstructing the zeitgeist (see talk archive for more). Text mdnp (talk) 01:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2021

article uses pc jargon like *hate speech* (?). please rewrite in plain English. 2600:1006:B044:D29B:3CB3:446F:4057:EB7E (talk) 00:50, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done Those are two pretty basic English words. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 04:14, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
"Hate speech" is slang/buzzword - that fails as objective english for use in a Wikipedia article's main descriptive text &c. Benjamin's article is far from perfect. Sub-tabloid type websites as sources for main text is what negated my interest in Wikipedia as anything other than a really good search engine type hyper-concordance &c. Text mdnp (talk) 01:33, 20 February 2021 (UTC)


Article states false information regarding verses in Talmud. The reference provides no evidence just a one sentence opinion of this topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C55:700B:100:D4DD:5C4D:E93:6A1F (talk) 22:35, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

About his Social media Bans

Can you please add that he is currently blocked on Dlive? This makes the news that mentions that two of the biggest earners of Dlive are Nick Fuentes and Owen Wilson outdated. I think it is important to mention this

Do you have a source that mentions this? A secondary source (a news source probably) would be preferred. A primary source could also be useful (from Dlive press release or something from Benjamin). Thanks! Jlevi (talk) 19:15, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Missing Info about Zoning and Housing Issues

A certain user continues to remove valid and sourced information regarding complaints to local officials about Benjamin's compound. What are everyones thoughts on this. It is a valid and sourced issue. One user continues to revert these edits. I am looking for guidance. TruthBuster21223 (talk) 20:46, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

One of the sources in your edit is a self-published website by Mike Weland ("Kootenai Valley Times" about page). The other source does not support most of the information you added, including the "potential cult or 'Aryan Style' compound" allegation, which seems like a clear violation of the WP:BLP policy to me. This type of information should ideally have multiple high-quality sources, but you have not even provided one reliable source for those specific allegations. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 21:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

The Opening Description

Owen Benjamin Smith's politics and controversial statements should be described in the opening sentence. The fact that he claims to be a comedian, and was a former actor should follow that lead. As it is now, the opening statement does not do the best job at accurately reflecting why Benjamin is notable in the first place.

The fact is, Benjamin has not been cast in any role for years. He has not been booked for a comedy shows either, other than hosting and creating his own shows.

Benjamin has been described multiple times as a conspiracy theorist and racist. He has been described as an anti-semite multiple times as well, and a holocaust denier, a racist and a white nationalist.

A better opening would be: 'Owen Benjamin Smith (born May 24, 1980) is an American conspiracy theorist and alt-right political commentator.' The bit about his history in comedy and acting should follow in the body of the article under history/career.

TruthBuster21223 (talk) 05:36, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Those terms would violate WP:LABEL as they are not widely used by reliable sources. The term "racist" is not used in the article at all, and the content about conspiracy theories is mostly attributed to the sources because of issues with their reliability and bias. He is clearly most notable for his acting and comedy, which is the only reason his subsequent comments have been reported on. His antisemetic statements are also already covered in the lead. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2021

needs to be changed to

there is no evidence to connect Owen benjamin to the alt-right. Gravy1898 (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. In addition to the sources in the article, alt-right political commentator and comedian Owen Benjamin, Owen Benjamin, an American “alt-right” actor, comedian and political commentator who promoted anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and anti-LGBT views, and also far right A far-right comedian named Owen Benjamin was the highest earner on DLive. There is a fair amount of sourcing out there. You'd have to show the weight of the sources use a different descriptor. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:44, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

So is anybody "alt-right" so long as some biased "news" source brands the person as such? That seems to be the only way people justify the sourcing, but it doesn't make any sense. I'm sure I could find a right-wing article that calls Hillary Clinton a "despot", but that shouldn't allow people to put it at the top of her Wikipedia entry, even if it's "sourced". Is there a relevant official Wikipedia policy when it comes to smearing vs. objectivity? WillieBlues (talk) 04:58, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Reliable mainstream publications such as USA Today and Variety are not comparable to "a right-wing article". – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 05:25, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Alt Right?

What does it mean that he is alt right, and what is the source for that? It's a label that he denies, so by what metric does he fit the criteria? 66.232.212.131 (talk) 14:46, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Citation #15, among several others. The "metric" is whether he is widely described as such in reliable sources, and it appears that he is—you can ctrl-f "alt-right" in the references section and see it appears several times. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:35, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
I added cites to that description in the article from two of the sources discussed above on the talk page here so that the information is a little easier to find. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 19:19, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Bethany Mandel

Can someone explain to me why Bethany Mandel's view of Benjamin is in this article? Serious question. Robin J Thomson (talk) 00:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Conspiracy theorist

Wikipedia calling him a conspiracy theorist instantly gives him cred. 72.211.65.133 (talk) 16:56, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Reinstated to Twitter/X

As of now, Owen Benjamin's Twitter/X account has been reactivated. He has resumed posting race-based jokes, conspiracy theories, and updates about his "compound." This may be worth noting in the Social Media Bans section. [1] 70.44.201.229 (talk) 13:07, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/OwenBenjamin

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2023

There is misinformation and libel on this wikipedia and I want it corrected. Clearly the editors are biased. Thatguy3557 (talk) 07:22, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 08:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2024

Owen's name isn't Kares Troy- Omit Kares Troy- 129.101.71.39 (talk) 08:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 20:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2024

He has never supported or said anything to support white supremacy that is false!!! 2603:3020:2B00:A600:B851:F26F:A1DA:B954 (talk) 16:17, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 20:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
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