Talk:Operation Tracer

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Military history: Fortifications / British / European / World War II

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A fact from Operation Tracer appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 January 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the top secret, World War II dual observation post of Operation Tracer was constructed in the tunnel system of Lord Airey's Shelter?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/January.

Wikipedia

Unclear description of rehearsal location[edit]

While consideration had been given to rehearsals in Scotland, the team undertook rehearsals at Romney Marsh, England, following initial training. There they observed the movement of vessels on the Thames estuary.

This would have been quite a feat; Romney Marsh is on the East Sussex/Kent border, overlooking the English Channel. Nmg (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further to the above, this seems to be an assertion taken from the Telegraph's obituary for Bruce Cooper. This is the only source I can find, and it's clearly incorrect; Romney is about 40 miles from the closest part of the Thames Estuary (at Whitstable) and the North Downs are in the way. Nmg (talk) 19:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look and see whether I can find any additional information on rehearsals in England. Anne (talk) 21:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Confused by main map and diagrams[edit]

Main map caption says "Location of Operation Tracer's Stay Behind Cave". Where? Is it the red dot? If so, that leads me to the second question, how could it simultaneously view both the Med and the Bay? The map shows it far from the bay, but the diagrams seem to show it only observing the Bay and not the Sea. Very confused. --Dweller (talk) 20:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the red dot represents the location of the cave. The view of the Bay of Gibraltar is through the west observation slit, shown in the info box, the lower image of "Early History," and the gallery photos. The east observation post to view the Med. Sea is the larger aperture (and ledge), shown in the first of the gallery photos and also the lower image of "Early History." Operation Tracer was positioned at the upper ridge of the Rock. So, with two observation posts, those inside could view both the Bay and the Sea. Anne (talk) 21:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you.

Article name[edit]

The operation seems to have been called "Operation Tracer", not "Operation Tracer, Gibraltar". It seems the comma and Gibraltar are being used for disambiguation from the other Operation Tracer listed at the disambig page Operation Tracer. I think the current situation is unsatisfactory and either of two options would be better.

Either:

This is the primary usage, in which case this article should sit at Operation Tracer, with a hatnote to the other one.
Or this one should be disambiguated in the more conventional fashion to [[Operation Tracer (Gibraltar)]. Commas are used to disambiguate place, within larger place (the guideline gives the example of Windsor, Berkshire, rather than items per place as currently used here.

Any views which is preferable? I'll post at the other two relevant talk pages. --Dweller (talk) 15:21, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How about making this the primary usage "Operation Tracer" with the disambiguation page moved to Operation Tracer (disambiguation)? --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 16:34, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moved as this is a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and hatnoted. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:29, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External Links Not Found[edit]

Apart from the documentary, which is still on YouTube, the photographs linked to are all 404 errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhugart (talk • contribs) 20:54, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Plumbing?[edit]

What plumbing (if any) was there in this facility? How did the toilet(s?) work? Were they just connected to a waste pit below, like a primitive outhouse, or what? If so, how big a pit was provided, to be used by 6 men for 1 or more years? And was there any provision for eliminating odors?

Also, what drainage was provided for the wash pit? It would seem that some kind of drainage is needed, for the dirty water remaining after occupants used it to wash themselves (and their clothing, and eating utensils). It couldn't just have been left with standing water -- eventually it would fill up and overflow. And evaporation couldn't be counted on -- the extremely high humidity in the Gibraltar tunnels would make that unworkable. What plans were made for these issues? T bonham (talk) 06:34, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

extra 0?[edit]

"57,600 cubic feet (1,630 m3), with dimensions of 45 ft x 16 ft x 8 ft (14 m x 4.8 m x 2.4 m)"

45 ft x 16 ft x 8 ft=5760

14 m x 4.8 m x 2.4 m=161,28 m3

--2.132.84.87 (talk) 02:57, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]