Talk:Olga Kurylenko/Archive 1

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Archive 1

French?/Russian?

The aim of wikipedia is to proof what you write by using references. So far I haven't found anything that shows she's got a French Passport. Neither that her mother is Russian other then an interview in witch her mother doesn't make clear if she means she's a Russian speaking Ukrainian or that she is Russian (Ukrainians often don't say). The claims she is a Russian model etc. make no sence since she diffenatly doesn't got a Russian passport. Come up with real references and don't make this a Iguesssopedia please. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 17:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

In this [1] interview she references to Ukraine as "my country". If she has a French passport she is a Ukrainian model/actress with a French nationality rather then French born in Ukraine! She clearly doesn't feel French! If sombody finds references to her having a French passport I'm more then willing to include it in the article! -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

"Although half Olya Russian. For it only dad with the Ukrainian roots" her mother says here -> [2] Archived 2015-07-01 at the Wayback Machine, good enough for me. Just remember no references = it's WP:OR and WP:OR is not allowed on wikipedia. She still never calls herself half-Russian though, nananana na :)))))))) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Why is everyone painted as being Russian. Her mothers side of the family is Byelarusan. Мои прабабушка Анна и бабушка Лена были очень красивыми. Прабабушка знахаркой была. Она белоруска, работала ключницей у шляхтичей Пудловских. Ее соблазнил хозяин поместья. От него родилась моя бабушка Лена. Пудловский хотел забрать ее, потому что не было у него собственных детей, но прабабушка не отдала. В 1945-м вернулась в Беларусь, где ее приговорили к 10 годам лагерей. А еще через 20 лет реабилитировали. http://gazeta.ua/index.php?&id=211753&eid=562&lang=ru Bandurist (talk) 01:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
For the same reason as In Russia I was a Jew, in Israel I became Russian :) --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 18:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Не бють по паспорті а по морді. Bandurist (talk) 05:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Olga is Ukrainian in her Israeli wiki article too (see:[3]) :)). Maybe in Israel they start to understand too that not everyone from the USSR was/is a Russian :))) -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 17:59, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
el-wiki is Greek, not Israeli. In fact there are Hebrew and Yiddish wikis for Jewish tongues. --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 16:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops ;) -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

People are painting her mother as Russian because this is what she calls herself in the interview. She may or may not have Belorussian ancestry (likely does) but Russian is what she says and identifies as. I have Ukrainian, Russian and Polish ancestry but I call myself Russian, and so does Olga's mother. Anyway, the interview is a better source of information because we can quote her own words.--Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 00:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Great we can choose our ancestries ourself now? When somebody who is 100% black start to call herself white you consider her white? That would surprise me a lot. You just can't except Ukraine is not a part of Russian anymore, isn't that the sentiment behind your last edit? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 02:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

What does her great-grandmother being Belorussian have to do with Ukraine not being part of Russia? And how does that make her Belorussian? It just means she has Belorussian ancestry and nothing more. Many Russians do. But she was born in Russia, speaks Russian, and considers herself Russian. She says she's Russian—and we can cite that from her interview—and that's what we are going to call her. As for my sentiments, sorry to disappoint but your suspicions of me are completely unwarranted. I haven't said anything about your motivations here despite your prominent Ukrainian flag-waving on your user page. Let's not get personal. I don't have any nationalist agendas, I'm actually here to make sure this article follows MOS:BIO. --Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 04:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"Chosun" is not a realiable sourche they just quoted this wikipage when it was vandalised on november 4. Olga's mother is Ukrainian, unless she's got a Russian passport. Olga's mother can be of Russian decent with a Ukrainian passport. Nationality and ethnicity are two different things. My mother has Flemish roots, that doesn't make me Belgium... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 16:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Admittedly I don't know much about Chosun, but I figured if we cite that then the French/Ukrainian thing might go away until a better source comes along. But thank you for warning me that Chosun was actually quoting Wikipedia on that, it definitely needed to be removed in that case. It is good to have users as aware of these things as you are. As for Marina's nationality being Ukrainian, yes, I know the difference between nationality and ethnicity. Your edit "a mother of Russian descent and father of Ukrainian descent" is great because it fixes that issue. --Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 19:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Wouldn't be surprised if she had 2 passports but since that's illegal in Ukraine the change she would admit that in public is extremely minimal. Sorry for thinking you where a 'Russian nationalist of the year'. One of the things that is great about Wikipedia is reaching consensus with users who think differently then yourself. If it happens (like it did this time) you get wiki-articles more truthful then articles written by a single person like elsewhere on the internet! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Found out today she actually has a French passport, could be dual-citizenship hence this careful frasing of the sentence, besides in most sources she's called Ukrainian. So to say she is just French is a bit misleading I think. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 02:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Lack of references

I've never heard anything from Russian people in St.Petersburg that would even indicate that they think Olga is a "betrayer to their culture"(especially from the the political party). Also they have never said that people like James Bond are their enemies^^.

"The fact that she is the first Bond girl from a post-Soviet State received mixed reactions in the post-Soviet countries. The Saint-Petersburg based Communist group KPLO has accused her of "moral and intellectual betrayal" in starring in a film about the "enemy of the Soviet people" (meaning James Bond)"- from the article on Olga Kurylenko in Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Kurylenko

Need more references folks!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.204.209.14 (talk) 19:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

It already has 2 references from respectable Eastern European news agency's, are you saying that wikipedia should only use references from sources the whole world knows? That would limit us to CNN and BBC News.... KPLO is a small group of Russian people, I'm not 100% sure most Saint-Petersburgians disagree or agree whith but I never wrote Russians don't like her... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Did she really do victoria's secret catlog before?

Height

In a Ukrainian on-line chat with fans she says she's 1,75m[1]. Yet this article states she's 1,78m, does she not know her own height or do we need a better reference? — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 22:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

  1. ^ (in Russian) Ольга Куриленко: Из окна своей квартиры я вижу Эйфелеву башню, Komsomolskaya Pravda Ukraine (October 23, 2009)

French-Ukrainian

According to WP:MOSBIO nationality and ethnicity is given for "the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable". Kurylenko is a French citizen since 2001, and although active as a model already before that date, she was not notable; being a model is by no means enough to satisfy notability. By the time she started appearing in films and tv-series, she had already been a French citizen for many years. No matter how fervent any user likes Ukraine, we still follow Wikipedia guidelines here.Jeppiz (talk) 00:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Rather than discussing the matter here, Mariah-Yulia prefers calling me a "hypocrite" in edit summaries and claims there is a consensus not to say Kurylenko is French. I can see no such consensus here, and think we should follow WP:MOSBIO. I have no idea what Mariah-Yulia means is "hypocritical" here and would advice the user to discuss changes here rather than just revert and insult.Jeppiz (talk) 18:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Obviously there is no consensus at all not to say she is French. On the contrary, other editors have also remarked on Mariah-Yulia's nationalist POV about the matter, saying that "I advise you to avoid contentious edits on subjects with which you have a clear conflict of interest (WP:CONFLICT). Your sense of nationalistic pride has allowed you to state with confidence what she "feels"." and "you appear to be monopolozing the English version in order to censor out any reference to her being of French nationality". If Mariah-Yulia keeps up these violations of WP:MOSBIO, WP:POV, WP:OWN and WP:CIVIL, I'll report the user. I agree fully with the user who said that Mariah-Yulia has been monopolizing this article for personal nationalistic purposes.Jeppiz (talk) 18:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I was accused by 2 users (including you) of being a nationalist, that does not make me a nationalist. Kurylenko is never referred to as French-Ukrainian neither by herself or any publications outside wikipedia, in the article she reveals she has the French nationality she is referred to as Ukrainian (and although she says in there she feels closer to the French mentality she does not say she is French). Wikipedia should not try to create it's own reality by forcing people to be what they do not say they are (the same goes for Mila Kunis supposed Ukrainian-Americanness). Nobody but 2 editors ever complained about the intro of this article, that makes you and the other editor a minority and thus going into consensus. Editors like you who keep me from creating new content and who use guidelines to force there own believes on the majority of wikipedians do annoy me (they are guidelines -->WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY). Yes I was uncivil, and I am sorry for that, but people who keep me and others from creating new content and who are wasting time by writing long speeches on talkpages do annoy me. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:27, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'm not sure you understand how Wikipedia words. If you are "annoyed" by having to go to talk pages instead of "creating new content", then Wikipedia may not be for you. Wikipedia is a joint project. You seem to have a similar misunderstanding of consensus. Yes, we are only two or three who have "complained about the intro", but as far as I can see, you're the only one who has opposed saying that she is French. That makes your opinion the minority opinion, definitely not the consensus one as you have often claimed. And you're right, Wikipedia should not create "it's own reality", we should report on factual matters. And regardless of whether you like it or not, the fact and the reality is that Kurylenko is a French citizen.
In all kindness, I would strongly recommend you to sit back and read up on Wikipedia policies. Wikipedia is not here for you to "create" content, to invent non-existent consensuses to support it and to be "annoyed" at editors using guidelines and talkpages.Jeppiz (talk) 19:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I just made a compromise edit, please discuss only this since we both can better ourself... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Does she speak Ukrainian?

According to Kyiv Post: "Her Russian skills left much to be desired; she was mixing it with English and French. Questions in Ukrainian she could not make out at all". Or was she just to tired at the time? I presume she was thought Ukrainian at school, or (di)dn’t they do that on the (Ukrainian) Black Sea coast? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 09:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Voice duplicated her own role in Ukrainian; guess either she or Kyiv Post was having a bad day back in March... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 20:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Inappropriate Content

I have just attempted to remove the sections "Measurements" and "Dress Size" from the right hand side panel, and note that my edits have been reverted. I feel that the inclusion of "Measurements" is inappropriate and irrelevant to an encyclopaedic article. Wikipedia should be offering quality content suitable for users of all ages, not information more suited to a men's/lad's magazine. Why is this information deemed relevant and necessary to the article on actress Olga Kurylenko?

131.227.158.13 (talk) 01:43, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

If she does not work as a model (that looks the case to me...) the "Infobox Model" should be replaced by a "Infobox actor" (like on the Mila Kunis-article). The "Infobox actor" does not have "Measurements" info in it. I suggest we swap to a "Infobox actor" in this article since that seems her occupation now and is what she is best known for. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 09:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Agree to change to the infobox in this article to "Infobox actor"? — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 09:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think this would be a good solution. Thank you for your help!

131.227.74.161 (talk) 12:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem! Let's wait what MBK004 has to say before taking action. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 13:07, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that this is a cut and dry. She has had a notable modeling career, being on the cover of Vogue and Elle is notable. It may be best to ask the appropriate wikiprojects (I reverted since an IP had removed valid parameters from an infobox ... standard anti-vandalism patrolling; this article is not on my regular watchlist). -MBK004 17:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Undiscussed move reverted

I have just undone the move to "Olha Kurylenko" as a move made without consensus.--ukexpat (talk) 17:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

wrong transliterated last name?

I can't understand why "Kurylenko" instead of "Kurilenko". Russian "И" (in КУРИЛЕНКО word) pronounced exactly like "E" letter (i.e. "ee" combination in most eng. words), and "И" always trasliterated as "I". (see Translit table article in russian [4]). BTW, russian letter "Ы" always transliterated as "Y". So, why "I" ("И") letter replaced with "Y" ("Ы") in "КУРИЛЕНКО" word?

P.S. when i pronounce КУРЫЛЕНКО (following from article translit & russian translit table), its sound funny, because КУРЫ translated like hens (chickens) and ЛЕНКО sounds like ЛЕНКА (russian name "Elena" in rude word pronounce) = fun for russian ears =)))

P.P.S. i know that IMDb also used "Y", but i dunno WHY?

P.P.P.S. do you think that most Ukrainian people speak on Ukrainian language? haha! Ukrainian government tries to be that, but now most Ukrainian people speak on Russian language.

P.P.P.S. sorry for baddiest(?) english explain you ever seen. i promise to begin study eng. lang. in the future (maybe when i go in USA) =) 80.240.215.40 (talk) 21:17, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

upd: example of correct translit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Kirilenko —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.240.215.40 (talk) 09:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"Kurylenko" is an absolutely correct transliteration of a Ukrainian surname Куриленко. Please note that Ukrainian "И" is not equivalent to Russian "И" in use and pronunciation. It is customary and official that Ukrainian "И" is transliterated with "Y". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.198.211.199 (talk) 08:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC) Could someone please explain why her name is transliterated into Russian instead of Ukrainian? Ukrainian language did exist when she lived and was born there regardless if they were part of USSR or not. You may write that she was born in Ukrainian SSR, but you cannot pretend that the language was created 1996.Mykyta (talk) 04:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:UCN. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 06:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

You CAN'T put her down as just FRENCH

You CAN'T put her down as just FRENCH, when she was BORN and RAISED in Ukraine and is of Ukrainian stock! Thats as if somebody would put Charlie Chaplin down as American because he spent so much time there, but I've never seen anybody do it-they always classify him as an English/British actor who lived in USA. This is really unfair, you trying to claim Olga all for yourselves, you French/Western fools! It all smells like anti-Eastern European propaganda to me... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.124.138.133 (talk) 13:44, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Chaplin is denoted as English not just because he was born and raised in England but because he was a British citizen for his whole life, while Kurylenko has never even had a Ukrainian passport. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 14:52, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Kurylenko was stateless from 1991 till 2001???? Most unlikely and according to Kurylenko's mother "She changed her citizenship from Ukrainian to French long ago". Please keep a cool head everybody, in the long run this Wikipedia article will change nothing.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Her birth country is mentioned in the lead, the infobox, and twice in the main body of this rather short article. What exactly is your issue? Jaan Pärn (talk) 02:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Yours statement here above "Kurylenko has never even had a Ukrainian passport" is WP:OR. And you and everybody else don't need (nor should) make use of WP:OR to make your point even if others are doing that (the claims by Львівське here below "She is still a Ukrainian citizen... Without a verifiable source that she renounced her citizenship" is also WP:OR). I simply tried yesterday to calm this talkpage down... My statement above only applied to this talkpage. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 13:28, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

But you CAN'T classify her just as FRENCH, because that means she is of French origin. You could've put "Ukrainian-born actress of French nationality". Its not enough just to put that she's of Ukrainian blood below.

Read WP:OPENPARA. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 21:15, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
"the country of which the person is a citizen, national " - She is still a Ukrainian citizen, so there is no basis to omit this. And if we want to get super technical, Ukraine doesn't recognize her French citizenship at all. Without a verifiable source that she renounced her citizenship, I see no reason why this keeps getting removed by disruptive editors on here.--Львівське (говорити) 16:44, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
See the previous section. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 08:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I do not understand at all why it's not listed at the beginning that she's Ukrainian All the reasons presented above do not make any sense and I can find other examples elsewhere on Wikipedia where these rules are not followed, especially for Russian born individuals. So if the issue is her current citizenship and the fact the she became notable after she moved to France, why, for example, does it say that Natalia Vodianova is a Russian model? She moved out of Russia at the age of 17 and has lived in England and now France. Following your rules as noted above, you should write that she is an English -French model. 99.233.135.66 (talk) 02:19, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Per WP:OPENPARA, "In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". The only country Ms. Kurylenko is a citizen, national, or permanent resident is France. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Also the fact that her Ukrainian name transliteration was removed is absolutely ridiculous - even Sergey Brin who left Soviet Union at the age of 6 has his name spelled out in Russian and there is a mention of him being from Soviet Russia in the first section. Please be consistent and either restore references to Ms. Kurylenko's origins at the top of the article or remove them from the other individuals. This an obvious bias.99.233.135.66 (talk) 02:36, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I believe the policy that applies here is WP:COMMONNAME. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

So according to this policy 1) her name needs to transliterated into Ukrainian - why is it not?

"However, if there is a common English-language form of the name, then use it, even if it is unsystematic (as with Tchaikovsky and Chiang Kai-shek)" Jaan Pärn (talk) 01:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm asking why there is no Ukrainian spelling of her name included, as it is done with corresponding spelling for every other person who was born in a country that uses alphabet other than Latin. Mykyta (talk) 03:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
And I give you that quote from WP:UE above. That's all I got. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
That completely does not make sense. Are you saying that the name Kurylenko has been already established in English on some prior occasion? Mykyta (talk) 04:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

2) If it is "the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident" why does it it say Russian model in front of Vodianova? Why does it say "Russian-born" in the first sentence under Evgenin Lebedev when he is a British citzen who spent almost his entire life in Britain? Why does it say Canadian for Conrad Black when he famously renounced his Canadian citizenship and lived most of his life abroad. The fact is, it does matter and removing "Ukrainian- born" from the first sentence and leaving just "French acctress" is actually a very misleading statement.

I am not familiar with these articles and people. If you can see a violation of WP:OPENPARA, go ahead and fix it. Jaan Pärn (talk) 01:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Obviously I don't see it as a violation since I want to add the exact same statement to Ms. Kurylenko's article, therefore I will not "fix" it. It is however unfair to have different rules for different individuals so for consistency sake, I am proposing that similar phrase "Ukrainian-born" is added to this article or removed from all other individuals. Mykyta (talk) 03:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
We cannot violate the policy in this article just because it has been violated in a few other articles. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I would like other editors to review this.Mykyta (talk) 04:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

3) "Ms. Kurylenko is known as a model and actor. Her origin has minor significance for her career." So very wrong! Ms. Vodianova's. Mr. Lebedev's and Mr. Black's origins had minor significance on their careers yet they are included. Ms. Kurylenko still speaks with Eastern European accent and as such she has been consistently typecast as an Eastern European in most of her movies ( Hitman, Quantum of Solace, Coronet, Magic City, Oblivion, Land of Oblivion , To the Wonder). In the last 2 movies she played an Ukrainian - do you actually think it was coincidental that she's Ukrainian herself? Don't answer that, let the reader decide it, but you cannot omit this information because that's distortion of facts. You need to restore "Ukrainian-born" in the first sentence. It is very significant to her being an actress. It does not make sense to omit it, for crying out loud, is there a word limit? It makes me think that there is something else at play here - why is ist always eny reference to someone or something being Ukrainian that's always tampered withMykyta (talk) 18:51, 6 April 2013 (UTC)~

A person can easily be typecast without any relevance with his or her actual background. Ms. Kurylenko is not a famous actor because she's born in Ukraine. Jaan Pärn (talk) 01:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry, with all due respect, this is not a proper argument. I am not claiming that she is a famous actor because she was born in Ukraine, I am simply stating that the fact she was born in Ukraine is a significant part of her being an actress and it's a misrepresentation and distortion of facts to just describe her as "French actress". You wrote that "typecasting has nothing to do with one's actual background"? Are you claiming that the fact that she's been cast as Eastern European in most of her movies has nothing to do with the fact that she is Eastern European? That would be quite an original research on your part. Let the user decide that after the see all the notable facts about her. According to Wikepedia rules: "... previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability."
Since most of her acting roles consisted of playing someone of Eastern European background, it is very notable that she is Ukrainian born. Please restore it to the opening sentence. Mykyta (talk) 03:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The article does not discuss her roles as typecast Eastern European. The openpara cannot mention anything that is not discussed in the main body. By the way, she rose to fame in the role of Camille Montes Rivero, native to a country at the opposite side of the globe from Ukraine. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm not asking to mention typecasting in the opening paragraph, but her place of birth which is notable in her case. The article lists her movie characters' names which are Eastern European so it is notable that she's Eastern European herself. That's it. Also, on one hand you're saying that typecasting doesn't matter as it's not part of the article, on the other hand you're trying to prove that she was not typecast... So does it or doesn't it matter? By the way Camille Montes Rivero character had a Russian mother. Just saying. Mykyta (talk) 04:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Did you just write that you cannot add her birth place in the opening paragraph because the article does not talk about her being typecast? That doesn't make any sense. Of course you can mention her birthplace in the opening paragraph because her birthplace is further discussed in the main body. Please restore it. Mykyta (talk) 06:04, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Her birthplace is now mentioned in the lead. What is your issue? Jaan Pärn (talk) 02:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for adding it, but it's a bit awkward, isn't it? Why not "Kurylenko is a Ukrainian born French actress and model" Better yet. "Kurylenko is a Ukrainian-French actress and model" since she worked extensively as a model before she became French citizen. Mykyta (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Because of the policy. Jaan Pärn (talk) 01:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Didn't we just go through this before? We just established that her place of birth is notable and should be used in the lead so it's not against policy. So why not say "Ukrainian-born, French actress". That does not contravene policy, it's succinct and to the point. Mykyta (talk) 02:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
No we did not. Kurylenko is not a famous actor because she was born in Ukraine, no matter how hard you try. Jaan Pärn (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Please stop telling me what I am supposedly trying to do and do focus on the facts. I am not trying to say that she's famous because she's Ukrainian, only to add to the lead that was born there. According to the policy, if a place of birth is notable to the subject, it should be in the lead - and we already discussed this ad nauseam above. The policy also states to use common sense, surely it is common sense to note it for someone whose job it is to speak and act and who still speaks with a heavy accent that's other than their nationality. I don't think that you're being abjective about this and I would like someone else to review this Mykyta (talk) 03:03, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
The fact is that her origin is insignificant for her career unless you can line out her biographies that say otherwise. Jaan Pärn (talk) 03:14, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Not French-Ukrainian!

French citizenship was removed from the lead here [5] (I originally put it in there), that was the consensus I talked about. If there is (new) consensus it can be put back there, but she never calls herself French, hence she is not French (at least she doesn’t feel it). — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 08:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I placed the French citizenship back in the lead, still guess she also holds a Ukrainian passport also, but where to find that fact/reference? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 08:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Obviously this is a very touchy subject with you. I advise you to avoid contentious edits on subjects with which you have a clear conflict of interest (WP:CONFLICT). Your sense of nationalistic pride has allowed you to state with confidence what she "feels". I don't really care, the French version states she is of dual nationality - you appear to be monopolozing the English version in order to censor out any reference to her being of French nationality or Russian ancestry. Good luck. Ledenierhomme (talk) 00:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I have no intend to censor out both, I'm the one who put both things in the article :), It is true that I sometimes edit a bit in a "Ukraine Promotion" way, but I have seen worse :), my editing yesterday was a bit Roy Keane-style I admit that. I am a apologist if I offended you! — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 14:39, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

If she became a French citizen in 2001, why bother to quote her mother saying in 2008 "She changed her citizenship from Ukrainian to French long ago"? This is completely pointless203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Her nationality added to the first sentence

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), people's nationality should be indicated in the first paragraph. After reading a few discussions here, I have to say that it's pretty simple: Nationality: Being a citizen of a certain country. If she has two passport, let's say a French one and a Ukrainian one then she is a Ukrainian-French person. It has nothing to do with how we feel or what she says. If you don't consider her to be a French person while she has a French passport then that's your problem. -- And Rew 21:39, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

She is Ukrainian and only recently became a French citizen. For all aspects she is Ukrainian-born. Not the same as French-born. Wikipedia guidelines say: "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." In her care its absolutely relevant.85.243.69.116 (talk) 21:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is absolutely relevant as she only acquired French citizenship 10 years ago, and is still technically a Ukrainian citizen. She's also notably famous in Ukraine (with streets named after her, meeting with Ukrainian politicians, etc.) and does charity work there. She's not far removed from Ukraine to the point it would not be relevant - rather, it's incredibly relevant. --Львівське (говорити) 18:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Ukraine does not recognise dual citizenship (two passports), so she can't be both French and Ukrainian. We all know she acquired French citizenship, so legally her nationality can't be Ukrainian. What's also important for the lede is that she became notable already being a French citizen, but not when she was a national of Ukraine. --Garik 11 (talk) 15:27, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
This is your own original research / opinion. Per Ukrainian law, you're right, there is no dual citizenship, so she is only Ukrainian and not French (that is, Ukraine does not recognize her French citizenship, and when she goes to Ukraine, she shows her Ukrainian passport, legally). Yes, she became notable after acquiring the French citizenship, but she also had Ukrainian cit at the time, and still does. OPENPARA states its guidelines for people who were born in another country but became notable for another one - but in Olga's case, Ukraine was a big part of her life then, and now after she's still very active there, so to dismiss her citizenship and notability is just out of line.--Львівське (говорити) 21:32, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Excuse me, you say that it is right that there is no dual citizenship under Ukrainian law, accept that she acquired French citizenship, yet say that she still has Ukrainian citizenship. This is impossible. Please refrain from commenting if you cannot be logical.203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
The cited sources seem to disagree with that so may I see your sources? --Jaan Pärn (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
What cited sources? (concerning what?)--Львівське (говорити) 21:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Obviously we are discussing Ms. Kurylenko's nationality here so the sources should concern that. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 21:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Also, I'd like to note that at the moment there is absolutely no talk page consensus to remove her nationality/citizenship from her lede, so rather than edit warring, take this to a relevant WP or the like to get an outside opinion. Disregarding the manual of style and just reverting everything isn't the way to do things.--Львівське (говорити) 21:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Nobody is trying to remove her nationality from the lead. Just the currently cited sources give her as a French national since 2001, which was before she became notable as an actress or a model. So far no sources have been put forward to argue against that. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 21:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't think there's any debate that she's a French citizen. The debate is whether she is still a Ukrainian citizen, and there are no sources saying she's renounced it or anything of the sort.--Львівське (говорити) 21:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Mrs. Kurylenko went to live in Paris at her age of 16, so you need to put forward evidence she ever had a Ukrainian passport. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 22:04, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
She would have been a citizen of Ukraine for 7 years, so no, I don't need a source to verify this. The onus is on presenting evidence that she never had one / renounced her citizenship in 2001. Between 1991-2001, she was a Ukrainian citizen, and during this time she was a notable model; which completely qualifies hyphenation under WP:OPENPARA.--Львівське (говорити) 16:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Get real, you cannot possibly be demanding for sources on the citizenships a person never had. The WP:BURDEN lies on the editor who adds material. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 18:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The burden is on you to prove she never had Ukrainian citizenship. You're essentially saying she was a stateless person for 10 years.--Львівське (говорити) 00:25, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. You're trying to add "Ukrainian", so the burden is on you to prove she did NOT renounce her Ukrainian citizenship when she acquired her French one which would be a self-evident and legally right thing to do. You're essentially saying she is a criminal according to Ukrainian law where dual citizenship is illegal. Without a source, a claim like this would be a violation of WP:BLP on just too many levels. --Garik 11 (talk) 08:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the burden is on you since you are restoring information. (this is very chicken and egg, no?). I'm not saying she's a criminal, I'm saying the burden of evidence is on you to prove that she is no longer a Ukrainian citizen. That said, per WP:OPENPARA, it should still say "Ukrainian-French" seeing as she rose in fame before she was a French citizen. This is open and shut, and I hope you stop reverting in spite of the manual of style saying how things are done on wikipedia. This is turning into WP:IDONTLIKEIT --Львівське (говорити) 20:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
No, the burden is on you, the person adding information. Ukrainian_citizenship#Dual citizenship states that dual citizenship is not allowed. You will need to provide a source that she holds Ukrainan citizenship. Nymf talk to me 20:33, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
This is WP:SYN on your part to say that Ukraine invalidated her Ukrainian citizenship. In reality, Ukraine simply does not recognize her French citizenship - however, to imply something either way would require sources - and this is wikipedia, we cannot assume one way or another. As far as we know, she has both.--Львівське (говорити) 20:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
No, as far as we know, she does not have both, as per her mother's statement, she as a law-abiding (first Ukrainian, then French) citizen "changed her citizenship from Ukrainian to French long ago", which is now in the article duly cited. --Garik 11 (talk) 22:27, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
This is still original research on your part, she makes no mention of renouncement, just that she gained the French citizenship.--Львівське (говорити) 00:19, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
She not only gained, but "changed" (поміняла). When I change "A" for "B" I am not left with "A". Knowing the definition of the Ukrainian word "to change" (поміняти) (to replace with another, take or use another instead of) is not original research. And you need a citation to prove that "changed" does not really mean what it's supposed to mean here. --Garik 11 (talk) 08:54, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
She was a cover girl for Vogue and Elle year before acquiring French citizenship. According to recent citations, this is verified she as a Ukrainian citizen during this time. Per OPENPARA, "previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.". Can one of the people reverting please explain how being a Ukrainian citizen during her beginning of notability ISN'T related to her notability? Considering, literally, every single article on her touches on the subject of her being from Ukraine, and her citizenship at the start of her career being that...it seems rather off-base to argue against the notability factor here.--Львівське (говорити) 20:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Her notability as a cover girl before acquiring French citizenship (and apparently renouncing her Ukrainian citizenship and moving from Ukraine to live and work in France) was at a very low level and by no means meeting WP:NMODEL criteria. So in the opening sentence we only mention her citizenship/location when she became notable as per WP:NMODEL. We are happy to mention her background/cultural/ethnic affiliation to Ukraine elsewhere in the article, just not in the opening sentence as per WP:OPENPARA --Garik 11 (talk) 22:27, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
She would qualify for NMODEL for this period per "Has been featured multiple times in notable mainstream media.", would she not?--Львівське (говорити) 00:19, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Please be more attentive. The criterion you quoted is just one of the WP:PORNSTAR criteria "only in relation to subjects who are or have been involved in the pornography industry." Criteria for a model/cover girl for Vogue and Elle like Kurylenko are indeed in WP:NMODEL:
  Actors, voice actors, comedians, opinion makers, models, and celebrities:
  # Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.  
  # Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following. 
  # Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment.
So at the beginning of her career before she changed her citizenship from Ukrainian to French in 2001, she by no means qualified. --Garik 11 (talk) 08:22, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The discussion is drifting off the point. WP:OPENPARA states: "In most modern-day cases [nationality] will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". What you are discussing applies for people notable mainly for past events, which is irrelevant here. Kurylenko is a French citizen and permanent resident. We have no proof she holds a Ukrainian citizenship. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 08:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
There also no proof she no longer holds it, so it goes both ways. Assumptions either way is original research. I'm not disputing that she's French at all, she obviously is. The contention here is that some of you believe she is a) no longer a Ukrainian citizen, b) not a dual citizen c) not notable when she was Ukrainian d) being born in Ukraine is also not notable to her bio insofar as its inclusion in the lede is concerned. --Львівське (говорити) 18:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, she was Soviet born. GoodDay (talk) 18:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Ukraine still existed before the Soviet Union collapsed. If she left the country before it gained independence, like Mila Kunis, I'd agree moreso with the above statement.--Львівське (говорити) 19:15, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
She was born in 1979, which makes her Soviet born. GoodDay (talk) 19:23, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

"French actress of Ukrainian origin" - I think this would be the best compromise. Although it would be interesting to compare the case with e.g. Depardieu: once he renounces his French citizenship he will become a "Russian actor of French origin then"!--Plutonius1965 (talk) 13:47, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Read WP:OPENPARA. Jaan Pärn (talk) 14:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
If interpreting strictly WP:OPENPARA, her "Ukrainian origin" is important for her notability. Everybody speaks of her as of a Ukrainian beauty. So what's the problem?--Plutonius1965 (talk) 14:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Ms. Kurylenko is known as a model and actor. Her origin has minor significance for her career. Jaan Pärn (talk) 14:32, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
You may be right. However, the rule of common sense is more applicable here as it is indeed absurd not to indicate the origin of the person, particularly if she had lived half of her life in Ukraine. See for example Sergey Brin - you have indications about his origin, although he left Moscow when he was young. On the other hand, why Sergei Rachmaninoff is not an American composer, although he spent the rest of his life in the US? Why Yo-Yo Ma is "French-born", and not entirely "American" musician, although France has no influence on his notability? Why don't you update the biographies of all these three people and see what happens? Furthermore, the same WP:OPENPARA clearly mentions that "This guideline is a part of the English Wikipedia's Manual of Style. Use common sense in applying it; it will have occasional exceptions. Please ensure that any edits to this page reflect consensus". You edits are reverted --Plutonius1965 (talk) 15:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

"French actress and model with Ukrainian descent"

Is it really that important she is described in the lead of this article as "French actress and model with Ukrainian descent" or as "French actress and model"? The continuous discussions/edits at (much edited (unlike this page)) Mila Kunis have shown that according to current Wikipedia standards and current accepted Wiki standards the wp:lead of this article should not include the words Ukrainian descent. (Some tips on how to accept this can be found here.) I also believe that if you want to do sometime for Ukraine here on Wikipedia you can do better things then fighting about the lead of this article (per example: you can change (in the Wiki articles that still use the obsolete) Kharkov into Kharkiv (to reflect common English usage & for consistency within this article + others + the Wikipedia article on Kharkiv) or include the Ukrainian Cyrillic name variant in articles about Ukrainians that only have their Russian Cyrillic name (in the Wiki article about them) or no Cyrillic name variant. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:52, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

PS Writing your (first) Wikipedia article; or expending Wikipedia articles about Ukrainian related subjects is also a useful opportunity... Go to WikiProject Ukraine for more info or ask for help there! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 14:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
The problem with Mila Kunis is that she isn't actually of Ukrainian descent at all, wheras Kurylenko is and we have sources to back it up. Secondly, Kunis left Ukraine as a Soviet citizen, whereas Kurylenko left as a Ukrainian citizen.--Львівське (говорити) 21:30, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

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1.5 generation = French-Ukrainian

I Wiki'd this person, and was surprised to see that she is listed as "French", and I see that this is a contentious issue here in the talk page. In the past I have worked very closely with 1.5 generation migrant students for several years, assisting in their migration and cross-cultural difficulties - most of whom moved country at a similar age to Olga Kurylenko or in their mid-teens. When asked about their nationality, the general reaction was that some students would say "CountryX", and some students would say "CountryY" at various times, depending on the individual student and their individual experiences. For most students, when accuracy was important, they would describe themselves as "CountryX-CountryY-ian", and this continued to be the case many years later. That is, most students were aware that they were not "just" children of "CountryX" nor "CountryY", but were most accurately a combination of both "CountryX and CountryY". For most, their country of origin held a special place in their heart, and was never forgotten. Pending Kurylenko's own opinion on her national identity, I think the correct wording should be either "French-Ukrainian", or "Ukrainian-born" (fact) in my opinion. "French" strongly implies that she was born in France, which is not the case. I am changing the lead to "French-Ukrainian" based on the above rationale, as I think it is most likely to be the best reflection of her identity. –Slagar123 (talk) 07:46, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

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Moved from Moscow??????

Still pushing Russian agenda, I see.. Why is it that it continuously rejected from the top paragraph that she was born in Ukraine and held a Ukrainian citizenship as being not notable, but right on top it now says now that she moved from Moscow to France? How is that notable? Not only it is not notable,it is also very misleading, as it implies that Moscow is where she's from, whereas in fact she was there just temporarily on modelling assignments. It is absolutely ridiculous how her Ukrainian roots are being constantly hidden and relegated to the bottom while at the same time incorrectly and deceitfully, it is implied that she is Russian. Enough already.Mykyta (talk) 03:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

WP:OPENPARA says: "Previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." Her Ukrainian background is entirely irrelevant to her career. For that matter, she could have been born and raised in Outer Mongolia or New Zealand. As for her previous nationality, she was born and raised in the Soviet Union at a time when Ukraine as a sovereign state did not exist. She spent less than a year in independent Ukraine. You can't really claim she was a Ukrainian citizen as she never reached the passport age in the country. Should she have grown up without leaving the country, she would have been free to choose Russian nationality (nothing unusual, especially for the early 1990s). The fact that she was discovered by a Moscow-based modeling agency and started her career in the city may or may not be relevant to her career, that may be up for dispute. Personally I do not care if it is deleted but a start location for her career does make sense. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Olga Kurylenko is Ukrainian. Period.

Olga Kurylenko is one of the most famous Ukrainians in the world. She was born in Ukraine and grew up in Ukraine. She moved to France as a teenager only for her modelling career. She did not "renounce" her Ukrainian citizenship as people state; the only reason she applied for French citizenship is because traveling on a Ukrainian passport was difficult; she had to go get a visa each time she traveled (because Ukraine is outside the Schengen Area).[1] There needs to be some common sense applied here. If you asked Olga Kurylenko, "Are you Ukrainian?" she would say "Yes." She would not say, "No, I'm French." She does not even live in France - she lives in London! In this same article she is asked why she lives in London and not Hollywood, and she said because London is closer to Ukraine where her parents live (so she obviously travels back there frequently). Not because it's so close to France. If you look at her Twitter account over the past year she has repeatedly brought up the Ukrainian crisis and asked people to pray for peace in Ukraine. She has a charity in Ukraine and a street named after her. She very closely identifies as Ukrainian. To have her introduction say she is French is just incorrect. Wikimandia (talk) 19:19, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

All this is irrelevant. WP:OPENPARA states nationality = citizenship or country of residence in most modern-day cases. Jaan Pärn (talk) 01:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
It would be irrelevant if she had renounced her Ukrainian citizenship, which she did not. Kurylenko has dual citizenship, and she adamantly self-identifies as Ukrainian, not French. Wikimandia (talk) 11:54, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Why is her name tranliterated into Russian, not Ukrainian? I know i mya be looked on as petty by some, but considering the war going on there now, it is absolutely unacceptable to push through the Russian agenda. Mykyta (talk) 08:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
This, for change, is a relevant question. Unlike for nationality, there is no guideline for transliterations. In principle, you can transliterate to any number of languages of your preference. Russian seems one of the natural choices not because of propaganda but because Olga Kurylenko is in turn a latinisation of not her Ukrainian but Russian name. The latinisation of her Ukrainian name would be Olha, which she does not use. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 23:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
To User:Piznajko and others having trouble accessing Wikipedia guidelines. WP:OPENPARA states: Birth and death places, if known, should be mentioned in the body of the article, and can be in the lead if relevant to the person's notability, but they should not be mentioned in the opening brackets of the lead sentence alongside the birth and death dates. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 14:05, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
@Jaan: Cencorship is not tolerated in Wikipedia. If you continue censorshiping information about Ukrainian origins of kurylenko from the first paragraph, this will be reported. Please do not do agressive edits of the sort you did, WP:OPENPARA does not state that origins of the person shouldn't be included in the first section of the artcile.--Piznajko (talk) 15:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://fadeinonline.com/olga-kurylenko-interview.html
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