Talk:National Merit Scholarship Program

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[edit]

This year the index for National Merit semifinalist in Florida was a 215 index. Last year the cutoff was a 214 index in Florida.

Good luck to 2005-2006 participants!

cutoffs[edit]

Hey I was wondering where you found these cuttoff numbers? I didnt' see any links in the article

--Crucible Guardian 05:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No state cutoffs have been published yet; only the national percentiles are available. Semifinalists are announced in September. The only group officially identified as yet is the High Scoring group, which is the top approximately 50,000.

Can residents not from US also be eligible for this program? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.177.228.28 (talk) 15:20, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

National Merit Scholarship Program[edit]

Do they post the winners for 2006 anywhere? How about the State index cutoffs?

I don't know if National Merit does anywhere, but I'm sure with the large amount of people here we could gather enough data to do so (at least with the state index cutoffs). Douglas Whitaker 02:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to be very concerned about violating the winners' privacy. They probably got permission from the various winners they list on their site to use their names. I have tried to get lists from past years from the NMSC, with no success.WmMBoyce (talk) 16:10, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We might want to mention past winners such as Bill Gates and Lisa Randall talk 00:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.152.238 (talk) [reply]

There is a list of some notable National Merit Scholars at [1] including the ones you mentioned. — Myasuda (talk) 15:03, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2006 Scores[edit]

Just so we can save room on this page, scores for individual states are not officially posted anywhere anytime soon, as far as I'm aware, though I'm sure semifinalists are already posting on message boards (hint, hint). If you qualified, your school officials will let you know probably very soon. Zagsa 20:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

2006 (Unofficial) Cutoffs[edit]

Here is a post on CollegeConfidential that has some of the cutoffs: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=2993607&postcount=662. Some of the numbers are missing or circumspect nonetheless someone can incorporate them into the article right? Karma Thief 06:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

criticism[edit]

Should we include criticism of NMSP as being implicitly racist, as has been suggested repeatedly by the Journal of Black Higher Education? It's an important facet, and should probably be covered... Chris kupka 20:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a reference for this comment http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711%28200122%2932%3C30%3ATRIBIT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage but I feel that this is irrelevant, all they do is offer special programs for black students to aid them in finding scholarships that are only offered to blacks students. Such scholarships are not offered for white students ,I'm not going to get into how raciest that is, so a program is not necessary.

Isn't it rather hypocritical that the award is called the National Merit Scholarhip yet different states have different score requirements.

71.251.187.82 (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2008 (UTC)Bob Goonie[reply]

Corrected the Criticism section to delete references to the College Board since the National Merit Scholarship programs are administered by the National Merit Scholarship Corporation, not by the College Board. 164.144.232.10 (talk) 07:20, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

I suggest we merge this with National Merit Scholarship Corporation. There's is hardly anything in the other article, and this program & the PSAT seem to be the focus, so let's merge them.-Wikiphilia 21:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Let's merge it into here.DGG 23:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC),[reply]


sentence[edit]

"All Finalists receive a Certificate of Merit in recognition of their outstanding performance in the competition. Generally, Semifinalists who fail to advance to Finalist standing do so because they do not submit the application, have a large discrepancy between PSAT and SAT scores, have atypically low grades for a high PSAT/SAT student (i.e. not at least mostly A's and B's), or do not receive the endorsement from their school."

As the writer admits, this is a generalization. Count me as one person who met the above criteria and was rejected to be a finalist. (A classmate with worse grades than me made it to the finalist stage). If you ask me the requirements are fuzzy and the selection process is mysterious. I don't think the quoted sentence is accurate, and even if it is, its too vague and certainly can't be backed up with statistics.


2007 cut off[edit]

I know in my state (PA) the cut off for the 2007 year was 200, I have a letter from the people that run it, but I don't know if it is necessary —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.94.4.197 (talk) 11:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I scored a 200 in Kentucky in 2007, and my principal got a letter. 74.128.180.241 21:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Nmsc.gif[edit]

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History[edit]

As I believe I posted once before, there is no mention of the fact that there used to be a completely separate NMSQT;one became a semi-finalist based on this score, and a finalist based on a sufficient number on the PSAT. I would be interested in knowing when and why this test was done away with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.131.130 (talk) 19:11, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The lead section should point out that winning is not purely merit-based[edit]

The "Scholarships" section correctly points out that going from Finalist to Winner is not purely merit-based. You are more likely to win if your parents work for certain large companies, if you accept admission at a certain college, and other factors (see the "Scholarships" section). I feel this is important information that may belong in the lead section. The lead section rather strongly implies that it is purely merit-based, but that is only the case for 2,500 winners, the other 5,500 winners got sponsored scholarships.146.115.179.89 (talk) 23:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please find a reliable source that explicitly connects the availability of these scholarships with your allegation that they're not "purely merit-based." ElKevbo (talk) 23:42, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Hillary Clinton National Merit Status[edit]

The only authoritative source on this and the only entity capable of bestowing Merit Scholar status is NMSC. Every Scholar featured on the NMSC site has won either a National Merit Scholarship or an Achievement Scholarship. I am a member of their Scholarship Community and have access to the list of Scholars. I searched the list in 2008 when she was running against Obama. Hillary Rodham is not on the list, as they did not keep records of Finalists, Semi-Finalists, or Commended Students back then.

Hillary has never claimed to be a Merit Scholar, only a Finalist or Semi-Finalist. A claim by a reporter who may not understand the differences carries no weight when original sources are available in contradiction.

Buzzfeed researched her h.s. newspaper and yearbook. No claim for more than a Finalist.:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/heres-what-hillary-clinton-did-in-her-senior-year-of-high-sc

also:
http://www.hillaryclintonquarterly.com/hillary-rodham-clintons-high-school-yearbook/ and:
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=2744

Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 11:09, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It seens that you are using the terms "scholar" and "scholarship recipient" interchangably. The section in question lists "notable National Merit Scholarship Program honorees." It contains no information about scholarship recipients. The sources you provided indicate that Clinton was a finalist and was therefore honored by the program. Mpeterson33333 (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The section under discussion is titled Notable National Merit and National Achievement Scholars. Hillary Rodham does not fall under this category of NMSC honorees, and so adding her to the list is misinformation. If the section was instead retitled Notable National Merit Finalists and National Achievement Scholars, then her inclusion would be acceptable to me. Note that the article does mention that there are National Merit Scholars who do not receive scholarships (see the subsection National Merit Scholarship Program#Scholarships). — Myasuda (talk) 13:23, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All Merit Scholars have won a scholarship. Some scholarship recipients, e.g. Service Academy cadets, don't receive any money, but do get a nice certificate suitable for framing. They are nevertheless Merit Scholars. Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 18:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since there are no sources attached to the vast majority of the names in the list, I retitled the list with a more fitting name. The link to the NMSP page is dead, and I removed it. If anyone would like to start a separate list that names students who received scholarships, they are more than welcome to do so. Of course, it would be expected that all names contain a credible, accessible source.Mpeterson33333 (talk) 13:40, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The source for that vast majority was the NMSC web site Scholars page. The web site is undergoing a redesign currently, which is why so many links have gone dead. When you find a dead link, leave it, but stick a [dead link] tag after it. A bot will eventually go looking for an archived copy and fix it for you. When NMSC gets their act together on the web site, I'll be going back in and redoing the links. Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 18:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is quite unusual that you are focused on the removal of one name from this list, especially since I cited a credible, accessible source. It unreasonable to reject a highly credible source because you think "the reporter might not understand" something about a specific statement that he or she wrote about. Furthermore, please be mindful of the fact that you are pointedly discriminating against one individual by ignoring the vast majority of listed names with no sources attached; I would like to encourage you to be more judicious in the future. Mpeterson33333 (talk) 19:46, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's impolite to undo others comments. I've restored them for you. A pair of newspaper reporters who have not interviewed the subject are hardly "highly credible." Assertions must be verifiable, and when an authoritative source says they are wrong, they are wrong. Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 22:03, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's more than impolite, Cptmrmcmillan; if the conversation is on-topic, it's vandalism. Most all the hits that come up on the subject confirm Ms. Clinton as a finalist or semi-finalist [2]; [3]. Given some conflict in sources, the circumspect move at this point is not to include her in this listing. The edit warring, without consensus, by a WP:SPA, doesn't work here. 2601:188:1:AEA0:BC62:BFD6:7849:F056 (talk) 02:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. From the user Mpeterson33333's most recent edit summaries, it's clear that this user still don't understand the distinction between National Merit Finalists and National Merits Scholars (in spite of multiple clarifications provided over the past few days). As such, I question whether this WP:SPA (as noted above) should be editing this article at all. — Myasuda (talk) 02:20, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
They, and a sockpuppet, were just blocked. 2601:188:1:AEA0:BC62:BFD6:7849:F056 (talk) 02:22, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

National Merit maintains a relationship with its Scholars, where it does not with Finalists, Semi-Finalists, and Commended Students. Its relationship with Mrs Clinton ended when it affirmed her Finalist status with Wellesley College.

The folks on our Notables section are all members of the NMSC Scholar Community, and may become active by signing up. Scholars may contact other active Scholars through the NMSC email system. The NMSC Scholar Community link on the NMSC home page goes to the login page. Some quotes from the Community's Welcome page explain their intentions.:
"The purpose of the NMSC Scholar Community is to connect with other Scholars and to remain in contact with NMSC."
"...We are very interested in hearing about your educational, career, and community accomplishments since then. ..."
"We hope to share your story with others who are interested in NMSC's mission ..." Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 08:58, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew U. D. Straw National Merit status[edit]

Andrew U. D. Straw has been added to the list of notable Merit Scholars by a possible WP:SPA, without any credible evidence. This same editor has recreated an Andrew U. D. Straw article after it was deleted back in 2005.

The only "evidence" of Straw being a Merit Scholar is a claim by Straw on his online c.v. The authoritative source on Scholar status is the National Merit Scholar database, and Straw is not in it.

The editor claims without evidence that Straw isn't in the database because "NMSC does not list all 15,000 each year. Straw's National Merit Scholarship was from C-Thru Ruler in 1987." In 1987 there were only 7959 Merit and Achievement Scholars nationally, with 139 in Indiana. Corporate-sponsored scholarships, such as the alleged C-Thru Ruler scholarship would be, are included in those numbers. Straw's Northridge High School has produced 18 Scholars, all named in the database, and Straw is not among them.

Even if Straw actually were a Merit Scholar, he hardly rises to the level of notability of the others on the notable Scholar list. Cptmrmcmillan (talk) 19:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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