Talk:Murder of Sevag Balıkçı

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Enough is enough![edit]

A user who had the picture of a so-called "monument" to a terrorist organization called ASALA is imposing their hatred against anything Turkish by presenting a death, which is being processed by criminal courts, as a "murder" before the case has been concluded, although the suspect has declared "it was an accidental killing". Even though the date may simply be a coincidence (could be Christmas, Turkish Natonal Day, World Peace Day etc) I did not touch the claim on "Genocide day" for not touching sensibilities. However my good-will was not responded at all. (See edits history.) As a Wikipedian I cannot accept that an incident be presented as "murder" in WP while there is no sentence of the justice. I request all civilised users to help me not to let WP be destroyed with these biassed attitudes for personal or national rancor. Thanks. --E4024 (talk) 21:28, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, first of all I did not create this article. Second, my userpage content isn't to be discussed by anyone. Calm down and then we'll continue our discussion. --Երևանցի ասելիք կա՞ 21:32, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
April 24, 1915...April 24, 2011...I do not see a difference. I believe E4024 is speaking too highly of the Turkish Justice System and especially of its handling of non-Muslim minority cases. See: "Turkey ranks near bottom on democracy ranking list." The Justice System in Turkey is in itself disputed and questionable. The lawsuit can be pending forever. Just look at the Armenian Genocide, its been 90+ years and not a cent of justice has been reprimanded. I believe the title of the article shall stay. Proudbolsahye (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The killing (whether intentional or not) according to the sources occurred on April 24th, after allegedly the killer said what he had said. The court will indeed decide. My two cents, as the key eye-witness changed his testimony, one is tempted to think of the Duck test23x2 φ 22:01, 29 December 2012 (UTC).[reply]
The murder of 1,500,000 million Armenians in 1915 is not recognized as genocide in Turkey. Should the rest of the world believe so as well? No. Like I said earlier, April 24, 1915 and April 24, 2011 is not different. Justice hasn't and will not be served for these hate crimes. It is no coincidence that the Justice for Sevag initiative was launched. Proudbolsahye (talk) 22:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article name[edit]

  • I think the name of the article can be "Sevag Balıkçı". Just take a look at Rodney King article please.--Rapsar (talk) 21:33, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have changed the title and am willing to comply. But what I don't understand is if the Justice System in Turkey is in itself disputed (See:"Turkey ranks near bottom on democracy ranking list.") and if crimes like the Armenian Genocide, Varlik Vergisi, 6-7 September Uprisings, Hrant Dink, and more weren't brought to proper justice, what makes any of us believe that this murder of 1 Turkish Armenian civilian will be any different? The fact that alleged killer was released and is roaming the streets of Istanbul as we speak, signifies the lack of professionalism and justice right from the start. I understand your concerns about a verdict but understand that justice is not the same in Turkey as opposed to America, especially towards non-Muslim minorities. Killing an Armenian is legal in Turkey (as outrageous as it sounds) and it is an ongoing topic of discussion. Just 2 days ago an Armenian woman was stabbed to death in Istanbul See: Elderly Armenian woman is murdered in Turkey. This is not to say it was a hate crime (as much details haven't emerged yet), but since justice hasn't been done to hate crimes towards Armenians in the past, Armenians have become susceptible and easy targets throughout Turkey. One would much rather kill an Armenian in Turkey than a Turk because the legal system in Turkey favors the killing of non-Muslims. I have proposed changing the article to Killing of Sevag Balikci but I have yet to received any answers. Nevertheless, as I have shown you, I am willing to go with whatever is necessary. I just thought I can share this with you. Proudbolsahye (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From the Hrant Dink article: "On July 25, 2011, Ogün Samast was convicted of premeditated murder and illegal possession of a firearm by Istanbul's Heavy Juvenile Criminal Court. He was sentenced to 22 years and 10 months in prison,[59][60] and will be eligible for parole in 2021, after serving two thirds of his sentence. Another suspect Yasin Hayal, was convicted of ordering the murder and was sentenced to life imprisonment." I do not want to discuss with you but I cannot let you turn this TP into a "unilateral" forum. The above is enough for people who look at things objectively. BTW in Turkey there is no capital punishment. I would appreciate it not to be forced to continue this meaningless debate. --E4024 (talk) 22:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The verdict of Hrant Dink charged only 2 hit-men for the entire assassination. On January 16, 2012, Istanbul's 14. Heavy Criminal Court reached a verdict with the remaining defendants. The court ruled there was no conspiracy behind the assassination, and stated that the assassination was an ordinary killing. It is a well known fact that the Ergenekon and the deep state (derin devlet) played a major role in the assassination however the court's decision denied the existence of Ergenekon's and the deep states role in the plot. Even children know that Ergenekon was involved in the assassination. Therefore, justice for Hrant Dink has not been fully served. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Has any Turk been ever convicted for murdering an Armenian in Turkey anyways? Based off that reason alone, if I were a Turkish murderer I'd much rather kill an Armenian then a Turk. If I killed a Turk, I'd be sent to prison...if I killed an Armenian, I'd be considered a hero! Just look at Ramil Safarov and Ogun Samast 96.41.0.114 (talk) 03:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your commentary. I couldn't agree more. However, we must stay on topic regarding the article name. Thank you! Proudbolsahye (talk) 09:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How?[edit]

The article says almost nothing about how this soldier died. Even in the section called "Death" there is no detail. The description of the incident should fit between the second and third sentences. The reader foes from "joking around" to family reactions, and in between somewhere, he died. It's not until the next section that the word "shooting" is mentioned. So finally the reader learns he was shot. There was "joking around" and a "shooting". Why aren't we told how one led to the other? Boneyard90 (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And why[edit]

The killer was sentenced to a prison term of 4 and a half years, in February 2015. The NCO who was in charge when this sad affair occurred was also sentenced for neglecting his duty. This article is a very interesting piece to show how some users work in Wikipedia like the "Proud Bolsahye" in these pages. If there is anything negative about Turkey write it in boring details, use Turkish, English, whatever language sources, without considering too much their reliability as long as they write something negative about Turks, sorry, I meant "something that fits your POV". When there is anyting positive on the same, just ignore. Write about an accidental death for weeks, but when the court decides it was not an assassination but an accident, leave your article unattended. Don't continue the story. Tell others some IPs may be sock puppets... --176.239.123.68 (talk) 10:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@176.239.123.68: Hello there. If indeed only negative information was being selected for the article, the 4-year sentence surely would have been included by now. Anyhow, could you provide the source and I'll add that there. Thanks. Mehmetaergun (talk) 14:48, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Zaman as source[edit]

Since Zaman, a newspaper belonging to the islamist preacher Fethullah Gülen and his network, has been shut down and is offline, all dead links in the article have been removed. It would be good if someone could establish a bot doing the same on all other articles where this source is used. Akocsg (talk) 13:35, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The current links are all dead, if there are archives of relevant articles, they can still be added. Akocsg (talk) 23:36, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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