Talk:Murder in United States law

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Seems contradictory[edit]

This seems contradictory: "with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.149.4 (talk) 20:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why Pennsylvania and New York?[edit]

"The first scheme, used by Pennsylvania and the most common among other states" and "The second scheme, used by New York among other states" seem like odd statements. Why list each state for the scheme, and more importantly why not list the other states. Should an encyclopedia use the phrase "among other states"? Shouldn't the full list of states using each scheme be listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.75.136.222 (talk) 16:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that in united states it is legal for some humans to murder other humans as long as those humans that murder are affiliated or connected to respected terrorist hierarchical organizations[edit]

What is an appropriate way to reference the legality in which some humans may kill other humans without any legal restrictions or concerns? http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/01/14/with-verdict-in-kelly-thomas-case-authority-of-police-to-beat-people-to-bloody-pulp-protected/ VkhMpLzWUbYFcWAT (talk) 06:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The number of jurisdictions[edit]

The article said "there are 53 jurisdictions" (without citing a source). I suspect there are more than 53 distinct jurisdictions that could apply, when considering 50 states, federal government offices, military jurisdictions, Washington D.C., federal prisons, foreign embassies and consulate offices, ships in U.S. coastal waters, U.S. ships in international waters, U.S. ships in foreign waters, swimming refugees, U.S. airlines, foreign airlines traveling to and from the U.S., Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, Guam, Guantanamo Bay, the Palmyra Atoll, American Samoa, the various other unincorporated unorganized U.S. territories, U.S. persons killed in non-U.S. places, U.S. persons killing people in non-U.S. places, the Arctic, the Antarctic, U.S. extraterrestrial space travel, ... So I changed the statement to say "there are at least 53 relevant jurisdictions". Further clarification would be beneficial. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Trouble archiving links on the article[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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felony murder conflated with first degree murder[edit]

Here's the statement I'm referring to, in the first paragraph of the article:

... there is a hierarchy of acts, known collectively as homicide, of which first degree murder or felony murder is the most serious ...

Regardless of whether or not "felony murder" is necessarily charged as "first degree murder", these are distinct concepts. Although "felony murder" may reasonably be construed to be ambiguous (i.e. it might refer to either the crime of murder charged as a felony or to the treatment of any death that occurs during the commission of a felony as "murder"), there's no purpose served by using the term in this context. Anybody care to agree or disagree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabrickator (talk • contribs) 19:18, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Federal vs. State Jurisdiction[edit]

The article currently says, "If a crime is not committed within any state, then Federal jurisdiction is exclusive." I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that that's accurate. For example, I believe that many crimes committed in DC, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. are handled by local court systems rather than the federal level. 74.71.74.187 (talk) 07:28, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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3rd degree murder in California?[edit]

I am wondering why there is a reference in the article to 3rd degree murder in California. California only has a 1st degree and a 2nd degree murder. As far as I know, there has never been a 3rd degree murder in California. [1] 2602:306:CE4E:2DC0:B8B5:EA29:6884:2433 (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.shouselaw.com/murder.html

3rd degree murder[edit]

The introduction mentions 3rd degree murder but later down in page it disappears. Considering current rioting in Minneapolis over another police killing, and the current sentence of 3rd degree murder, I wanted to know what this means. Is it synonymous with involuntary manslaughter in the Degrees section, and if so, worth mentioning there? Howard.noble323 (talk) 06:59, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Howard.noble323: See Third-degree murder. Confusing, I know. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 02:21, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge from Third-degree murder[edit]

There is a rough consensus to merge. That a subject is notable is not in itself a barrier to merge; WP:MERGEREASON provides that a "large overlap" is sufficient to justify a merger. In the absence of a sitewide prescriptive rule, the local consensus to merge prevails. Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 20:33, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposing that Third-degree murder be merged into this page.

That article only covers the United States anyway. This article covers all degrees except third, and first and second do not have standalone articles. Further, this article has info on third degree for Louisiana, which that does not for some reason. I see no consistency in keeping that article separate; it's just confusing. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 02:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support It's another level of murder, just like second-degree. And it's not so common as to need a separate article. Fold it into the Murder article- Veryproicelandic (talk) 20:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose nothing stops you from creating separate articles on first and second degree murder, or adding some summary information about third degree murder here per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE, but the sources on third-degree murder are enough to demonstrate stand-alone notability. Meanwhile, the crime defined in Louisiana is called "homicide in the third degree" and is not murder. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 23:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The killing of one person by another, through act or culpable omission, is homicide. When homicide is unlawful, it becomes a crime such as murder or manslaughter. To the extent that a state defines a crime of "third degree homicide", it should be differentiated from other articles based upon the content of the law, not its short title.
Louisiana recognizes five categories of criminal homicide: first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, and vehicular homicide. Arllaw (talk) 16:36, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Malice aforethought/premeditated[edit]

There seems to be a contradiction under the heading "Degrees". It says second degree murder is done "with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated". But then right above that paragraph, the phrase "malice aforethought" is linked to a definition that says it means "premeditated". I know nothing about law, but seems like there's a problem here that someone smarter than I might want to fix. Flowernerd (talk) 01:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the same thing, and there's several commentators upthread that have mentioned this too. It's a brief and very poor discription. Seems like this is something that a topic expert needs to have a look at and rewrite. Peter G Werner (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Murder (Australian law) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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