Talk:Mesh grounded bobbin lace

proof reading / motifs

joedkins, Could you please correct my grammar wherever required? Especially my Earnshaw quotations as I had to translate back from a translation and you seem to have the original. Please note that it is not a classification article, but an article about a group of laces with a classification section, just like the bobbin lace article. Jo Pol (talk) 11:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Jo Pol I saw you've put this article up! Very pretty! And a lot of work. Yes, this is very useful and ought to be said. I've tidied up the Earnshaw quote - it is now a bit repetitious but that is in the original quote. Your English is very good, but the phrase you were looking for is 'contradictory usage' where 'contradictory' ALMOST means the same as 'contradiction' and 'usage' as 'use', but not quite. I haven't altered the page number (I assume) - it's different in my edition by a page or two, but my ISBN is different to yours, and this is a popular book and must have lots of different editions, even before you move onto different languages! The line above the Earnshaw quote had a few words repeated - I assume that this happened during copying. I've removed. The other Earnshaw quote is fine apart from the word 'motif'. We may need to think about this. Earnshaw uses toile, which I don't really like (because I get my toile and my reseau muddled up, and anyway, life is easier without accents. Both toile and reseau should have accents.) I say 'cloth stitch', which is obviously wrong (cloth stitch can occur anywhere) or 'dense areas'. Or sometimes 'pattern', which is also wrong. I like the word 'motif', but I have heard it used in the technical sense of - say - a rose or leaf in Honiton lace - something small that one lacemaker makes lots of, then another lacemaker joins with brides. The point is that this term, used like this, is used in Part lace, and these motifs are not necessarily solid cloth stitch or half stitch (apart from possibly a gimp or pair encircling it). I haven't altered that word - motif. In fact, I don't feel strongly about it and would be happy if it was adopted for this important idea in mesh ground. But I thought I should warn you about its alternate meaning. Joedkins (talk) 14:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC) Joedkins, Thanks for the appreciation. Next time I'll count to ten (weeks/months?) before I put action to the thought "I can do better". Motif could also be misunderstood with for example fans in Torchon. I elaborated the different use in the introduction. For the subtleties like use and usage it indeed needs need proofreading by a native speaker. Jo Pol (talk) 15:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Jo Pol The introduction is good in content, but I feel that the handling is a little muddled. I've rewritten. Hope you think it's better.Joedkins (talk) 16:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Glossary

Jo Pol Another thought... Would it be worthwhile doing an article on 'ground'? This is a Wikipedia question rather than a lacemaker's question. I know that Wikipedia is not a "How to make" resource, and it would be too easy for enthusiasts in a subject to go into too technical detail. I have wondered about several terms, such a Footside and Headside, and the annoying toile/motif/clothstitch/... Lacemakers would insist that they are incredibly important, and would add lots more words to the list of possible articles. We have to be careful here. There is already a 'gimp(thread)' article, and a 'picot' article, but they are used outside lace. But 'ground' is SUCH an important idea - for lace identification as well as making lace. It would be easy to illustrate. And by making it a separate article, it could be linked from various types of lace to make it easier for people to understand. We could sort out the toile/motif/clothstitch/... as well. What do you think? It might help with the 'mesh ground' article as well. Joedkins (talk) 15:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Joedkins, Thought you'd never ask. The linking from other articles is a very good reason. Calling it a "Lace Glossary" may prevent it from becoming a step-by-step guide.

Jo Pol Hm. There may be a need for a glossary at some point. But I was thinking more of a picture-heavy article, just on ground, with the standard ones each having a picture, and the synonyms, English (and foreign where appropriate). Not really much of a description - certainly not how you make it - but possibly where it's used. The picture would give a clue as to how it was made for a lacemaker, and that would be sufficient. The pictures would be high-res to see detail, rather than necessarily authentic examples of old lace. Name of articles Bobbin lace ground. Possible redirects from Bobbin lace net. I will take that on. But don't hold your breath... I can't promise to do it right away - I'm got another project on hand at the moment. Joedkins (talk) 16:07, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Bobbin lace ground

Jo Pol - I've started Bobbin lace ground. Only two grounds so far, but I will continue to add more. Joedkins (talk) 17:10, 24 December 2014 (UTC)