Talk:Manpool

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Requested move 2 May 2024[edit]

Manpool → Northern England supercity – With reference to the article title criteria, "Northern England supercity" is likely to be more:

  • recognisable than the specific neologism Manpool (or the alternative, Liverchester)
  • naturally used and searched for, given that supercity is an established term
  • appropriately precise, avoiding WP:OVERPRECISION, as both John Prescott and Will Alsop's visions mentioned in the article were about more than just Liverpool and Manchester, extending to Hull, Leeds etc. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 22:43, 2 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. SilverLocust 💬 16:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject United Kingdom and WikiProject Cities have been notified of this discussion. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 19:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose no source has been provided that uses this name and the rename would change the scope of this article. Eopsid (talk) 21:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From sources already in the article:
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 15:46, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Merseyside and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Yorkshire have been notified of this discussion. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 17:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC) [reply]
  • Weak oppose the use of "Northern England" and the need for a descriptive title. This article is mainly on Liverpool and Manchester, with only one paragraph, indirectly mentioning the wider proposal. The words "Hull" and "Leeds" aren't even in this article. As this is mainly on L&M, then the article would have to be re-written, although probably better the wider proposals are elsewhere (if they're as notable), with this article remaining Liverpool and Manchester as they're much connected and discussed to each other. "Manpool" and "Liverchester" are the two names stated here, currently Manpool is more common than Liverchester or the proposed, so not sure the need for a descriptive name. But if anything, I'd prefer Liverpool–Manchester supercity, if we need a descriptive name. DankJae 00:17, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support though maybe Northwestern rather than Northern? Many of the references that include the word 'Manpool' also include 'Liverchester' with equal prominence, and I don't think it's true to say the term is used by the British press in this way, it's mostly just Lord O'Neill. This article needs improvement, in particular the Progress section which is only about partnerships between the two cities, not a merge. In general this article feels like WP:SYNTH. Orange sticker (talk) 09:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've made some edits to the references as some of them were inappropriate but also noted that none of the ones I could access mention any actual proposals to merge Liverpool and Manchester, at best they mention discussions about the future for a number of northern cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Hull and Newcastle, at worst they are completely irrelevant. This article should certainly be renamed and improved, or perhaps merged into a section of Northern England about ideas for the future. But having checked all references, my WP:SYNTH suspicions have only been confirmed.
Extended content
1. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/yoursay/letters/15448322.city-status/ Reader's letter

2. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/centralised-funding-and-power?__cf_chl_tk=RT5RXN0G3IyTb68dTWx6ojQZdEa_XSQFuOZYm64DK9c-1715593884-0.0.1.1-1770 about London - irrelevant

3. https://www.britannica.com/place/Greater-London - London, irrelevant

4. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/nostalgia/manpool-liverchester-coast-coast-supercity-28549340 - Includes Hull and Leeds

5. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4187409.stm as above, Hull and Leeds

6. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/oct/06/urbandesign.architecture as above, all three articles about Will Alsop's 2004 show in Urbis

7. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10654182/Could-merging-Liverpool-and-Manchester-boost-UK-growth.html Paywalled, but seems to be an opinon piece?

8. https://www.theguardian.com/media-network/media-network-blog/2014/oct/23/rebranding-the-north-liverpool-manchester-newcastle-leeds Opinion piece. Also mentions Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle - no particular prominence given to Liv & Man

9. https://www.ft.com/content/71b4f830-9d42-11e3-83c5-00144feab7de ‘Manpool’: time to kiss and make up - paywalled

10. https://skoutpr.com/manpool-or-liverchester/ blog on a PR company's website

11. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/20154487.warrington-council-disappointed-outcome-failed-city-bid/ Simply about Warrington's failed bid for city status in 2022. No mention of Liverpool or Manchester therefore " Warrington made a bid to become a city in their own right ... to bring them to equivalent standing with Liverpool and Manchester" is WP:SYNTH

12. is the same as 4.

13. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/business/metro-mayors-call-liverpool-manchester-14569166 just about rail links, not a merger

14. https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/wales-to-ireland-tunnel-more-attractive-than-scotland-to-northern-ireland-link-26-05-2021/ Wales to Ireland tunnel - totally irrevelant

15. https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/dfe68-irish-foreign-minister-and-mayors-of-greater-manchester-and-liverpool-city-region-look-forward-to-strengthening-cooperation-during-major-mission-to-dublin/ Simply about Liverpool & Manchester mayors meeting with Irish Minister, nothing to do with merger between two English cities

16. https://ilovemanchester.com/manchester-to-host-2022-commonwealth-games-with-liverpool replaced with more reliable, and timely source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40756894 but still irrelevant - joint bid to host Commonwealth games, nothing to do with merger

14. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/571562/NPH_strategy_web.pdf North Powerhouse Strategy - doesn't support previous sentence, about North as a whole

15. https://bylinetimes.com/2022/10/18/manchester-and-liverpool-join-forces-to-explore-green-energy-potential-for-powering-both-cities/ another collaboration, not a merger

19. https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/news/working-cities-of-liverpool-and-greater-manchester-together/ as above
Orange sticker (talk) 10:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Orange sticker May be it merged with Liverpool–Manchester rivalry? Into like just Liverpool–Manchester? Like Minneapolis–Saint Paul? DankJae 10:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like a can of worms would be opened... Orange sticker (talk) Orange sticker (talk) 10:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
May be Northern Powerhouse then? Nonetheless, if this is “Northern England” then should the article focus on a Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Hull proposals? DankJae 12:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I've pointed out in my other comment, that's what the majority of the references support, if "proposals" is even the right word, more like theories and ideas. Orange sticker (talk) 12:17, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think we're better off just deleting the article. Eopsid (talk) 10:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Support - None of the proposals, ideas, theories whatever you want to call them are sincerly suggesting that it actually be called a portmanteau of its member cities. If someone started facetiously calling Brighton and Hove, Brighove, then you wouldn't suggest moving the article unless Brighove actually became a common name. So if the article is to stay, then I'd support the proposed move. But as said above, it could also be merged into other articles. -- D'n'B-t -- 05:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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