Talk:Mangart

"Big Mount"

I assure you that "Big Mount X" does not sound natural in English. Senix (talk) 10:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I offered three natural parallel examples: Big Mount Peel,[1] Big Mount Ararat,[2] Big Mount Gulu.[3]. Note also USGS summit names with other syntax: Big Spruce Mountain, Big Moose Mountain, Big Coolidge Mountain, etc. Doremo (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

The latter three are of the format "Big X Mountain", which sounds far more natural in English. Of the former three, only the first (Peel) is actually a native English name, and this order is very much an exception.

Senix (talk) 06:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

The same syntax (Adjective + Mount + Name), all native English (from USGS): Little Mount Adams (WA), Little Mount Deception (NH), Little Mount Discovery (NY), Little Mount Grace (MA), Little Mount Hoffman (CA), Little Mount Susitna (AK), etc. Doremo (talk) 07:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Please note that I did not say that (Adjective + Mount + Name) does not sound natural in English; I said that the specific adjective combination (Big + Mount + Name) does not sound natural in English. You may further note that, in all your examples, the adjective is "little," a combination which does sound quite natural in English.

BTW I used to be a copy-editor :)

Senix (talk) 08:55, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

First you objected to the word big, preferring great instead. Then I offered several English examples with big. Then you objected to the syntax ("this order is very much an exception"), and I offered several English examples with that word order. Now you seem to be going back to disliking big again. I'm having trouble following your argument. Doremo (talk) 12:17, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

...OK. I am sorry to sow confusion. If it's any consolation, I find your commitment to this minor bit of awkward phrasing puzzling as well. Allow me to clarify: I object to the *combination* of this syntax with this particular adjective. It is not a natural-sounding formulation in English, which is why you will find relatively fewer examples of it (120K google returns for "Big Mount" vs 800K for "Little Mount", with the majority of the former for non-geographical references.)

In conclusion, please refer to this handy chart:

Little X Mountain = OK

Big X Mountain = OK

Little Mount X = OK

Big Mount X = odd

I have now spent as much time on this topic as I care to. Call Mangart what you will. (Although BTW Veliki Mangart should really be just Great Mangart; there is no "mount" in the original.)

Senix (talk) 13:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

The usual modifier for all sorts of toponyms is big: Big Abe Fork (WV), Big Abrams Gap (TN), Big Acorn Pond (NH), Big Aguja Canyon (TX), Big Alcove Spring (WY), Big Alder Creek (CO), Big Alkali Lake (CA), etc., also when the generic element precedes the specific: Big Lake Johnson (FL), Big Lake Moreau (LA), Big Lake Twenty (MI)—thus syntactically big + toponym. For Mount X, English names usually contrast unmodified names with little (Mount Susitna vs. Little Mount Susitna, Mount Hoffman vs. Little Mount Hoffman, etc., but the Slovenian name nonetheless contains veliki 'big'). So you're probably simply troubled by the lexical juxtaposition in this case, which is natural but infrequent due to English patterns with this particular lexeme. There are very few summits modified with great, generally only when the name itself is derived from a common noun meaning 'hill, etc.': Great Butte (CA), Great Head (ME), Great Hill (CT), Great Mountain (CT), Great Rock (MA). Doremo (talk) 13:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Extraordinary.

I don't really have anything more to add, other than that the fact that one can hardly find any English examples besides Peel should have been dispositive in itself.

Senix (talk) 07:45, 21 February 2020 (UTC)