Talk:List of members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee

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Featured listList of members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 24, 2010Featured list candidatePromoted
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 21, 2009.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that three Nobel Peace Prizes have led to withdrawal of members of the awarding Norwegian Nobel Committee?

Comments[edit]

I have now scrutinized all yearly reports from the Nobel Committee. It's one hell of a complicated job to get this straight.

  • The first annual report covers the years 1897 to 1900. Bernhard Getz was leader from 12 September 1900 to his death in 1901. I don't know why the members from 1897 to 1990 are not listed by the Nobel Foundation's website (well, I know why, it's probably because the prize wasn't awarded until 1901, but it still makes no sense). Members from 1897 were Getz, Steen, Løvland, Bjørnson and Lund with Viggo Ullmann, Hans Jacob Horst and Jørgen Christian Knudsen as deputies.
  • Wollert Konow (SB) switched party to the Liberal Left Party, cf this. Can we rely on the Nobel Foundation's statement that he represented the Liberals (Venstre)?
  • It seems to be incorrect that Løvland stepped down in 1922, he remained leader until his death and as such there were two leaders that year
  • Stålsett did serve in 1994, but only after Kåre Kristiansen pulled out in October. Otherwise Stålsett would have been deputy member throughout the year.
  • Who was the shortest-serving member? Kostøl, let's say 1 November as date of leaving: 10 months. No she is not the shortest-serving, cf Christian Holtermann Knudsen: 9 months, 2 weeks and 2 days. Then you have Nikolaus Gjelsvik; unknown date in 1904 – 30 June 1905.

The following could/should be worked into the list or mentioned somewhere (I had a hard time trying to create "notes"), but it has to be discussed whether non-advancing deputies should be listed:

  • Horst: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1901 following the death of Bernhard Getz
  • Bjørnson: On travel from 1 April 1904 to 1 July 1905, his seat taken by Carl Berner in 1904 and Nikolaus Gjelsvik in 1905
  • Steen: Ceased to function in 1904, but did not formally leave the committee yet. His seat was taken by Nikolaus Gjelsvik in 1904 and Carl Berner in 1905
  • Lund: did not participate in the autumn meeting of 1912, Jørgen Christian Knudsen met
  • Horst: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1913 following the death of John Lund
  • Stang: Originally a deputy member, also met as a regular in second half of 1918 following the death of Carl Berner. Still a deputy member, he finally advanced in 1921 following the death of Francis Hagerup
  • Konow: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1922 following the death of Jørgen Løvland
  • Knudsen: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1924 following the death of Wollert Konow (SB)
  • Thallaug: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1931 following the death of Hans Jacob Horst (but later became deputy again). Met in Koht's place in the decisive committee meeting in 1936.
  • Koht: Pulled out already in mid-1936, official explanation was that he now was Norway's Minister of Foreign Affairs (he had been since 1935, though...). He returned in 1941, only to disappear again in 1942.
  • Mowinckel: Pulled out in mid-1936, official explanation was that he was Norway's previous (!) Minister of Foreign Affairs
  • Tranmæl: Originally a deputy member, he met in Mowinckel's place in the decisive committee meeting in 1936. Before Lange died in December 1938, Tranmæl also met in Hanssen's (<- illness) place in the decisive committee meeting in 1938. Met for Koht from 1938, but this was not permanent (as in case of someone's death), just temporarily until Koht's possible return. Tranmæl formally succeeded Braadland as first deputy.
  • Jahn: not a deputy member, he was drafted into the committee in 1937 as Mowinckel's withdrawal was made permanent
  • Braadland: Originally a deputy member, he met in Koht's place from 1937 and formally advanced into the committe in 1938 following the death of Christian Lous Lange. Returned to deputy in 1940, but still served (temporarily) for Koht. Was then displaced by Koht's return, but soon advanced again following the death of Fredrik Stang!
  • Vassbotn: Originally a deputy member, he did not advance until 1939, following the death of Cornelius Bernhard Hanssen.
  • Tranmæl and Hambro: left Norway in 1940, was not a de facto part of the committee until after the war
  • (thus, in January 1944 the de facto committee only consisted of Gunnar Jahn, Birger Braadland (originally a deputy) and Anders Vassbotn (originally a deputy). It was laid on ice by the Swedish Nobel Foundation from January 1944 to the war's end)
  • Oftedal: Originally a deputy member, he was a committee member already in 1945, briefly, when Jahn was a member of Gerhardsen's First Cabinet. In 1946 he filled in for someone (probably Lange who was Minister of Foreign Affairs, not Hambro as this says) and in 1947 and 1948 for Lange.
  • Smitt-I: filled in for someone in 1946, probably Hambro, cf previous point
  • Refsum: Originally a deputy member, he advanced in 1965 following the death of Gustav Natvig-Pedersen
  • Wikborg: Originally a deputy member, he met from 1965 following the appointment of John Lyng as Minister of Foreign Affairs. Continued in 1966, and in 1967 he met for Nils Langhelle
  • Ingvaldsen: Originally a deputy member, he seems to have advanced via meeting member chairman in one year, but then returned to deputy leader after New Years'
  • Lindebrække: Originally a deputy member, he met while Helge Rognlien was cabinet minister. Returned in 1973 to replace Helge Rognlien
  • Aarvik: Originally a deputy member, he met in 1973 to replace Einar Hovdhaugen

Checklist to self:

  • Who succeeded Bernhard Hanssen as deputy leader at his death in 1939?
  • Who succeeded Gunnar Jahn as deputy leader at Fredrik Stang's death in 1941?
  • Data for 1976 must be checked again
  • Who succeeded Bernt Ingvaldsen as deputy leader at Nils Langhelle's death in 1967?

That's all. Needs to be sourced though, especially the findings of deputy members--should it be worked into the prose somehow? Geschichte (talk) 16:00, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most impressive work. My main concern regarding the FLC is the referencing, since none of the pre-1991 deputies are sourced right now. Are you planning to revisit the library? And how do we reference it someone sitting as deputy is confirmed as such by checking ten annual reports? As for upgrading of deputies, I would say that what is important is who sat on the board while the discussion was held, i.e. if someone was upgraded after the decisive meeting to elected the laureate was made, it is "irrelevant" that they formally sat on the board for the rest of the year. From my point of view, it seems that the main encyclopedic value of this list is to determine and show who took the decision to appoint the prize to a given person (even if the actual balloting is secret). If they met at any of the regular meeting as a regular, I would have said that a note should be made in the body. I'll leave this for you for the moment, but just speak up if you want me to do anything, including dirty work. Arsenikk (talk) 20:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are annual reports, but luckily these are collected into books for the periods 1900-1930 (note: 1900), 1931-1945, 1946-1960 and 1961-1975. For anything newer than that, the library just had a folder with the loose papers collected in it. No-one in the world can be expected to have anything else/better though... Geschichte (talk) 20:47, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't completely though this through, but here is an idea: take your results to the institute, convince them that it is reliable and that their web site is out-of-date, get them to update the page (which is the primary source of this article) and then use it to reference the deputies. That way, the referencing is easier, our hands are clean regarding any accusations of OR (which shouldn't really be a problem). On top of it all, we have a good story to tell our grandchildren, when that day comes. Arsenikk (talk) 21:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What is the implication of this issue for the FLC? Dabomb87 (talk) 18:42, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If Geschichte can add references to the deputies' periods, it should meet the FL standards and be ready to pass. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Nobel Institute had difficult opening hours, so this may take a day or two. Arsenikk (talk) 21:52, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think that at least, Bernhard Getz must be added and the committee members have to be extended backwards to 1897. I think the members were the same as in 1901, only with Getz. I probably won't have a chance to go to the Nobel Institute Library until next Wednesday or Thursday. Geschichte (talk) 20:55, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The books are:
  • Norwegian Nobel Committee. Aarsberetninger fra Det Norske Stortings Nobelkomité 1900–1930 (in Norwegian). Parliament of Norway.
  • Norwegian Nobel Committee. Aarsberetninger fra Det Norske Stortings Nobelkomité 1931–1945 (in Norwegian). Parliament of Norway.
  • Norwegian Nobel Committee. Aarsberetninger fra Det Norske Stortings Nobelkomité 1946–1960 (in Norwegian). Parliament of Norway.
  • Norwegian Nobel Committee. Beretning fra Det Norske Stortings Nobelkomité for 1961–1975 (in Norwegian). Parliament of Norway.

Geschichte (talk) 09:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arsenikk, please post on the FLC when this issue is addressed so that I don't mistakenly close it. Thanks, Dabomb87 (talk) 22:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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