Talk:Lester Coleman/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Editor User:Merry Yellow involved in discussion blocked as a sockpuppet

This is a strange development, the editor User:Merry Yellow has had a lot of involvement in this discussion and has been blocked as a sock. Any weight that the editor has had in discussions should need to be re evaluated. Off2riorob (talk) 21:13, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Annoying but yes. As far as I can ascertain, these are Anne Teedham's changes [1]. The sock was supporting the re-insertion of the check fraud material. The article is fine as it stands now (in my opinion). Early morning person has some good points but I'd like to see their response to the question you posed on their talk page. --NeilN talk to me 21:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your comments, as a good faith editor here and I got a fair bit of grief over this, it hurts to have been abused in this way. (not by you neil) Off2riorob (talk) 21:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
On further reflection, and also perusal of “Wikipedia:Avoiding harm,” I believe there are two other, and more important points to be made:

1) I reacted as I did to the discussion because it seemed evident that Mr. Coleman’s defenders were attempting to obscure the truth via various means, as mentioned in my earlier comment. It seemed clear that Mr. Coleman had been convicted for fraud, for example, and that it had been reported in a reliable secondary source, a Kentucky newspaper. But there is a more important issue here, and that is the welfare of a human being. A US court has convicted Mr. Coleman of perjury with respect to his assertions regarding Pan AM 103. This has been reported in the New York Times, and so it is widely known. HOWEVER, the second conviction for fraud in 2000 and its affirmation in 2004 were probably only reported in a couple of local Kentucky newspapers. It seems very likely that harm could be done to Mr. Coleman’s reintegration into society by making these further convictions known in the very widely read forum of Wikipedia. “Wikipedia:Avoiding harm” states, in point 1 under “An inclusion test,” that “If the information has only appeared in a few tabloid sources, local newspapers, or websites of dubious quality, or has only been the subject of fleeting and temporary coverage, then it is not appropriate to include it.” In this light, I withdraw my suggestion that the contested paragraph with details of the fraud conviction be included in the article. 2) But equally important is the question is whether Mr. Coleman deserves a biography at all. Again, “Wikipedia:Avoiding harm” states that, “If a person is notable only in connection with a single event, and little or no other information is available to use in the writing of a balanced biography, that person should be covered in an article regarding the event, with the person’s name as a redirect to the event article . . .” And later, “Is the person notable [enough to be included in an encyclopedia] for any other events in their life? With regard to Mr. Coleman, the answer, so far at least, seems to be “No.” I recommend that the article be either deleted, or fleshed out to a full and balanced biography, IF someone can find sufficient evidence of notability. But in any case, as mentioned in earlier comment, an update of the article in the light of Mr Coleman’s own comment in the discussion, and the AJR article (which qualifies as mainstream media) (Ref #3), are strongly recommended. --Early morning person (talk) 03:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Can't agree with deleting the article as the subject has written a book and his career has been covered by multiple sources. "Balance" does not mean writing about positive and negative aspects equally. --NeilN talk to me 03:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree. He is a notable person, and everything in the article is relevant and well substantiated. Looie496 (talk) 17:17, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Post from banned user removed per OTRS ticket 2009122810003058. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Facebook is not a reliable source. --NeilN talk to me 15:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Please provide any sources you have to enable us to check this information. Off2riorob (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Citations

Citation 3 appears to be a review of the book that is citation 4? I don't think this is really correct Off2riorob (talk) 01:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? The revewer is talking about some portion of the book that Coleman authored. We are mentioning what Coleman said in the book. --NeilN talk to me 01:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I am not certain but if we have the book it should be cited to the book or the comment explained that it is this guy commented and the comments are his review of the book. That is what I was thinking about was attribution. Off2riorob (talk) 01:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
You know better than me about citations, is this a wiki reliable ? Off2riorob (talk) 01:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I suspect the book review was used as it's easily accessible to readers and Coleman's claim is specifically mentioned (so that readers don't have to wade through the book to verify). However, the link goes to what is probably a copyvio so it should changed to [2]. --NeilN talk to me 02:39, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
There is nothing there that is comparable to our article content? Off2riorob (talk) 02:42, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Personally I think that if the comments are from the book that they better link to the book and not to someones review of the book, imo. Off2riorob (talk) 02:43, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I've changed the ref to the book review source. If you want to change it to the book itself, feel free. --NeilN talk to me 02:46, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Maybe I will tomorrow, lets see what new ideas come, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 02:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Coleman is dead scam – part II

It is clear that the references given are no proof of death. The "AUT Professor" who died - if any part of the story is true – is Lester Coleman's identical twin brother Lex Coleman. The related deletion discussion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lex Coleman) came to the conclusion, that Lex, a former professor at the American University of Technology was not notable, and also – falsely – concluded, that Lex and Lester were not the same person. Now – given this precedent, event the lifeless body of the AUT Professor will not count as proof that Lester Coleman is dead. You will also have to prove that Lex is Lester.

Personally I am more inclined to believe, that Lester just killed of his alias and has retired in the Caribbean. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:23, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

P.S. - If you want to see the information on Lex Coleman without access to the deleted article, you can check my attempted merge in the version history. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:32, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

P.P.S. - For a moment I thought the news on Lester's death might be true – but then I remembered that it was Lester himself who inserted the information in the first place, now as Wikieditor4508 (talk · contribs). Previously he was blocked for falsely using his wife's name, see User talk:Timpanycecelia. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:31, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

You realize that your comments on this page and here could be construed as a violation of WP:OUTING? Since you provide no evidence for your accusations, and the refs for Coleman's death don't seem to be searchable online in English, there's very little reason to prefer one version over the other. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
No, in fact I am more like accusing him of sockpuppetry. Wikieditor4508 (talk · contribs) confesses to being the same person as Timpanycecelia (talk · contribs). The later account was blocked by OTRS ticket 2009122810003058. I do not know the content of the OTRS ticket, but earlier in 2009 someone posted comments that she was the real Timpany Cecelia and the user posing as her was in fact misusing her identity. Based on available information we can also assume that even if the real Timpany Cecelia had an account, she would be a meatpuppet of the Coleman accounts. Coleman originally started editing his two articles as Lexcolemanllc (talk · contribs) and Lester Coleman (talk · contribs). This thing goes way back, you may not want to know all the details. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:24, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
P.S. - Searching the web for information about the subject of a Wikipedia article and posting it on-line on Wikipedia talk pages cannot be considered outing, even if the subject of the article pops up to edit his or her article.
P.P.S. - I am placing a {{COI}} tag on the article and restoring the {{dubious}} tag. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:47, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Regarding your P.S., that's not the case. An attempt to connect an Wikipedia ID to a real-world identity is, by definition, outing the identity of that editor. What's not at all clear (to me or anyone else, as far as I can see) is how far one can go in pursuing a claim of a conflict of interest without crossing the line into outing, since to establish the COI one has to deal with the real-life identity of the editor. These policies are in fundamental tension, and sooner or later the conflict is going to have to be resolved, even if it's only done by the accumulation of precedents to call on.

And yes, you're right, I really don't want to know all the details, stuff like that just gives me a headache. I just hope someone (anyone, on either side of the issue) comes up with some verifiable citations to support the supposition that Coleman is dead or alive. In the meantime, I'm taking the article off my watchlist. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:58, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

P.S. I don't think I removed the "dubious" tag -- did I? Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Please do not remove the article from your watch list, this article really needs all eyes on it. However, you may have to follow it for several years until can truly appreciate the drama. Some of the relevant information is here: User talk:Leigh711, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive588#How to handle a certain user name issue?. There was also something interesting right here, but seems that it has been oversighted. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Please be advised the New York office of American University of Technology has received a copy of Dr Coleman's Death Certificate issued by the US Embassy, Beirut. Any interested party may contact our NY office, 888-430-9996, Administrative Services to obtain verification. Dr Coleman was a respected member of the AUT family as Chairperson for the Faculty of Arts & Humanities, and Associate Professor Of Mass Communications until his disability and resulting heart surgery last year. He will be dearly missed by all of us.

Kathia Duran
Administrative Services
AUT USA
41 West 72nd St 7A
New York, NY 10023
Tele: 888-430-9996
email: [email protected]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by AutusaNY (talk • contribs) 15:37, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Hoax?

I have tagged the article with the {{HOAX}} tag. This article is the target of long term abuse by either the subject himself or someone using his or his wife's name. The false claims include a identical twin brother Lex Coleman or an early death in 2009 and again in 2010. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the hoax tag, which is not justified. Whatever the truth of the report of Coleman's death, the majority of the information in the article is reffed. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Tagging the article as a hoax is exactly the sort of thing the malicious editor has been trying to accomplish for years now. The information in the article is solid, and a number of us watch it with hawk-eyes. Looie496 (talk) 03:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

confirmation

Has anyone contacted anyone or found any more reports that confirm the details of his death? Off2riorob (talk) 15:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, if this is true, how come we have no mention of it at all in our article?

Dr Coleman was a respected member of the AUT family as Chairperson for the Faculty of Arts & Humanities, and Associate Professor Of Mass Communications until his disability and resulting heart surgery last year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs) 19:13, 3 August 2010

It is well known that Lex Coleman was an Associate Professor at the American University of Technology. However, this discussion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lex Coleman) reached the consensus that he is non-notable. Could you please provide reliable and verifiable sources for your claim that Lex Coleman is or was the same person as Lester Coleman, the subject of this article. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:26, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I am not making any claim about any of this, to be honest I have doubts about all of this. So we do have confirmation that someone called Coleman did die in Beirut and this is especially important, that the person that died was the person in this article? Hopefully the editors that added it or that believe it was this person will weigh in with some comments.......Off2riorob (talk) 19:25, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Posting phony contact information and references is an old tactic of this hoaxer. I did check one of the leads given by Wikieditor4508 (talk · contribs). The LESTER K COLEMAN with social security number 262-01-0991 died in 1993. He is not the subject of this article.
I have to agree with you about that posting, I don't see any or very little to assert that these citations and this death claim is correct at all in relation to the subject of this article. Off2riorob (talk) 20:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
We know (thanks to Petri Krohn) that the SSN posted by Wikieditor of the supposedly deceased is invalid. It wasn't a mistake, it was an attempt to mislead us. Given that, how can we trust the death claim made by this user, even if it is referenced by a seemingly reliable source (assuming WP:SOURCEACCESS applies)? If the SSN was made up to trick us, then isn't it reasonable to assume that the other references are made up as well? This user is certainly aware that most of us would have great difficulty checking those sources. I think we need to pull an WP:IAR and remove the statement that he died, "sourced" or not. Otherwise we are setting ourselves up for embarrassment. Evil saltine (talk) 12:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

template

COI template, who is the user or users that appear to have a conflict of interest? Off2riorob (talk) 10:02, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Lexcolemanllc (talk · contribs) and his numerous reincarnations. However, as the death claim has been removed we can now remove the COI tag -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
That particular username appears to violate the WP:USERNAME policy. But it hasnt edited in 3 years, should anything be done? Active Banana (talk) 17:19, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I think there is every reason to believe that he is the Lester Coleman who is the subject of this article. It is highly unlikely that the real Coleman has no idea of the drama going on around this article. The fact that his wife has been able to block Timpanycecelia (talk · contribs) by OTRS ticket 2009122810003058 proves that they are both following this article very closely. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:55, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
P.S. - Another reason to believe he is Lex Coleman is that he was heavily promoting his learning techniques in articles that have now been deleted as non-notable. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:19, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikimedia foundation has been provided the death certificate of Dr Lester Knox Coleman III. Dr Coleman was Chair of the Faculty of Arts & Humanities at the American University of Technology, Halate Campus, Lebanon, until 2008 and a Associate Professor of Mass Communications Emeritus since his illness. He was one and the same who was cited for exposing the US and UK government's role in the downing of Pan Am 103. He was illegally held for 154 days and paid damages by the US Justice Department. He has no criminal record in any jurisdiction. The "talk" section about this matter is a reflection of the inability of the "editors" to apply sound judgement and common sense. The bias and conclusions based on thin-air are numerous. The assumption, without attribution, that the Coleman in the article is not the Dr Coleman at AUT is comical. What planet do you cyber-keystone-cops live on? Dear Wikipedia Foundation San Francisco, CA We have repeatedly attempted to inform wikipedia.org of the death of Dr Lester Knox Coleman III, who passed 26 June, 2010. All of our attempts to correct the page referring to Dr Coleman have been deleted. The comments regarding this matter on the discussion page reflect a obvious bias by those claiming to be "editors". We are attaching a copy of Dr Coleman's Death Certificate issued by the United States Embassy in Beirut, where Dr. Coleman died. The content of the article about Dr Coleman is a hodge-podge of inaccuracies, misinformation and outright fabrications. Please feel free to contact our New York Office at any time.AUT USA 41 West 72nd St Suite 7A New York, NY 10023 tele: 888-430-9996 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharmoot (talk • contribs) 18:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

We need reliable third party sources. Active Banana (talk) 18:08, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Sockpupetry at ADF for Lex_Coleman?

This result of this AFD Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lex_Coleman was clealy affected by sock-puppetry. Also .. Doctor Coleman what type of a doctor was he? The person our article is about was not a professor of anything? Off2riorob (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

If you feel that the outcome was effected by sockpuppetry, maybe you should take the decision to deletion review. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Multiple users that commented to affect the decision were later blocked as socks. I don't want to go back to that I want to sort out the present death claim thst this person is confirmed as dead? Off2riorob (talk) 19:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I found this this SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nrswanson/Archive. I have not checked if any of his socks contributed to the discussion. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
There is nothing to sort out. Everything currently in this article is based on reputable sources (as far as I know), and nothing should be changed without a reputable source to back it up. It isn't our job to hunt for sources. If an editor wants to make a change and can show a source to back it up, it's worth discussing. No source, no change. So far nobody has shown a source for the purported death, so there is nothing to discuss. Looie496 (talk) 20:12, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the death claim..What do you have that says that this person is the person that has allegedly died? Have you checked any of the claims, has there been any confirmation that the person that wrote or co wrote the Octopus book is the person that has died or is actually the person in the claimed citations?Off2riorob (talk) 20:33, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

User:Nrswanson (blocked as sockmaster and unblocked in late April this year by Alison after they agreed to edit under one account, now back editing as User:4meter4 ... User:Broadweighbabe, User:Inmysolitude also socks of Nrswanson .. and the account User:Anne Teedham was also involved in that AFD outcome, another sock master, although I don't know if there has been check user checking between the two. Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Anne_Teedham. The outcome of that AFD was the way it was only because of the socks. Off2riorob (talk) 20:31, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

It is interesting to note, that in discussion the sockmaster was supported by user User:PJHaseldine, who in real life has argued forcefully for his own conspiracy theory on Lockerbie bombing. Does he know something we don't? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Date of birth?

Date Of Birth, I am challenging it, so replacing it without a citation is not a correct action. Have we got a reliable wiki citation for the DOB? Off2riorob (talk) 09:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Marion Military Institute

I think I found a reliable source at last. It seems that Dr. Lester K. “Lex” Coleman graduated from the Marion Military Institute as part of class of 1963. Here is the reference for the source:

  • "With the Alumni" (PDF). Pass in Review (Summer). Marion Military Institute: 23. 2009.
  • "With the Alumni" (PDF). Pass in Review (Summer). Marion Military Institute: 20. 2010.

The information provided matches what we know about Lex, AUT, guest lecturer for Princess Cruises, homes in Tabarja, Lebanon and Tallahassee, Florida. Most important however is that the Institute confirms that he is in their alumni. I do not think he could have hoaxed that. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

P.S - I have added another issue of the magazine that confirms the alumni status. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Well the first one is a comment sent in by any unnamed person to the email address, hello this is me Dr... I live in Lebanon now ..bla di bla...doesn't cut it for me, we also have nothing to connect those details with the person in our article that wrote the octopus and was in jail for five months. Off2riorob (talk) 22:50, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

SQUEAL by Les Coleman and Richard Pedemonti

Another published source ref to Coleman has been located. SQUEAL by Les Coleman and Richard Pedemonti, ISBN 0-939026-03-1, 1982, Spoonwood Press. Is authored by Coleman when he was a investigative reporter, after his assignment at the White House for RKO. The jacket cover contains a photo of Coleman and describes him as, " being at the Black September Massacre at the XX Olympiad, Munich, 1972, discovering wiretaps on Alabama Governor, George Wallace's bedroom telephone, and corruption in Connecticut...his accolades include the Emmy Award, The Edward R. Murrow Award from the Radio Television News Director's Association, the National Headliner Award, and the Society of Professional Journalist Award for Public Service. He has researched for ABC's 20/20 and 60 Minutes at CBS, and was a member of the first television investigative unit, the I-TEAM at WBZ TV4, Boston."

The Kudos for the book on the back cover incude: Frank Van Riper, New York Daily News; Jack Anderson, and Helen Thomas, UPI." This is obviously the same Coleman featured in this wiki article, identified by the photographs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Autusa (talk • contribs) 16:00, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Lester, and thanks for the reference. It would however be wrong to say the "source has been located;" you have had it all along, the rest of us have never seen it. As it is written by you, we cannot exactly take everything at face value. What I would really like to see is some independent confirmation for your television work, especially the New England Emmy Award. I have been looking around and found small bits and pieces. We would need old newspaper articles and the like. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
P.S. – And who exactly is Richard D. Pedemonti? Is he the same person as the son-in-law of Edward Robert Dyer and Natalie J. Dyer? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:44, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
P.P.S. – Found a Amazon customer review. Evidently Richie Pedemonti was a mob wise guy turned federal informant and Coleman's collaborator on the book. The interesting claim is however that The Sopranos tv series was based on the book! Can we find any sources for this? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:03, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Is there any on line access to this book? SQUEAL by Les Coleman and Richard Pedemonti, ISBN 0-939026-03-1, 1982, Spoonwood Press. Is authored by Coleman when he was a investigative reporter, after his assignment at the White House for RKO. The jacket cover contains a photo of Coleman and describes him as, " being at the Black September Massacre at the XX Olympiad, Munich, 1972, discovering wiretaps on Alabama Governor, George Wallace's bedroom telephone, and corruption in Connecticut...his accolades include the Emmy Award, The Edward R. Murrow Award from the Radio Television News Director's Association, the National Headliner Award, and the Society of Professional Journalist Award for Public Service. He has researched for ABC's 20/20 and 60 Minutes at CBS, and was a member of the first television investigative unit, the I-TEAM at WBZ TV4, Boston."

Parts of it can be found here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:04, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Open libary cool pic, looks like this person could be connectible to the content we presently have in the article? At least worthy of further investigation. Off2riorob (talk) 18:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Coleman Fraud by Celia Timpany

This is quite enough. My name is Celia Timpany – Very pleased to verify this in anyway you wish although it has already been verified by a Wiki Adminstrator. Lex Coleman has been using my name for all kinds of reasons, this is an ongoing saga of Cyber Bullying, identity theft, etc. which is currently being investigated by the authorities concerned. I am not his wife – I have never posted anything on this site. He used my name and it was removed by an Administrator at my request. I know all about the twins scam and much else besides. Happy to discuss it and lay this whole ridiculous saga to rest. This is a waste of everyone’s time to continue the speculation. I have no idea how to operate on Wiki – interested parties please let me know how to communicate with you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CeciliaT (talk • contribs) 15:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I am interested in this, have you got any WP:RS that you can support any claims with, that is what we need...ow and Hi, welcome. Off2riorob (talk) 15:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't see any need for that. I know how easy it is to get sucked into things like this, but really we don't need to be making work for people. All we need to do is rigidly follow the policy that nothing goes into this article without a reputable source, and that it is the duty of the person making the change to supply the source. There are no doubt endless fascinations in the ramifications of this story, but unless it appears in print, none of it has any relevance to Wikipedia. Looie496 (talk) 16:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea how to contact Off2riorob. I am not interested in being a Wiki contributor or making work for people. My only interest is in stopping Coleman from using my identity. I have watched the nonsense on this page for almost a year and have not responded after I was assured bu a Wiki Administator theat the abuse of my name will stop. I am happy to discuss this with anyone interested in the truth at my e-mail address [email protected] even though I fully expect Coleman to be the first to respond with an assumed identity.CeciliaT (talk) 17:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think your name has been mentioned since then. Off2riorob (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
To clarify, my response above was directed toward Off2riorob, not toward CeciliaT. Looie496 (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I fail to see what your point is exactly? I asked this person to provide any reliable citations they have, is there something you don't like about that? Off2riorob (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I've answered on my talk page. Obviously my post above did nothing except cause confusion; I apologize for being obscure. Looie496 (talk) 18:09, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
No one is contesting that you are the true Celia Timpany. There is no immediate need to do anything. However, it may still be useful to confirm your identity in case the impersonator returns. You contacted the Wikipedia OTRS team last year to block an account – the OTRS ticket number was 2009122810003058 see here. Wikipedia administrator and OTRS volunteer Someguy1221 recently left you a message here: User talk:Wikieditor4508#Trying to verify your identity. You can contact him to have your identity confirmed. --
I do not know how to contact any Wiki users and yes there is an urgent need to do something. You are understandably not familiar with the extent and severity of the abuse meted out by Coleman. I want every single reference to my name removed from this site - again. At the risk of sounding paranoid, 4508 is a very significant number in Coleman's attack on me - contacting Wikieditor4508 is a little uncomfortable, is this a huge coincidence or is this number part of a scheduled sequence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CeciliaT (talk • contribs) 19:31, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
No one is asking you to contact Wikieditor4508 / Coleman, his talk page was just the place where the message was posted. Evidently someone thought you would find it there. To make life simple I will just copy the message here:
It seems that you exchanged emails with the OTRS volunteers a year ago. Was it you or someone else? Do you still use the same email address? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Questions to Celia

On closer examination I must say that it would foolish to believe anything anyone posts on this page, however convincing he or she may seem. Out of general curiosity I would still like to ask you some questions. Feel to ignore any or all of them.

  • Who or what is Cecelia / Celia Timpany? Is it your real name or some stage name. Which part is the first and which the last name? Why does your email address use the name Selene Leigh?
  • What is your relationship with Lex Coleman? Were you at some point married or romantically involved or is it yet another one of his hoaxes?
  • Is the Lex Coleman of AUT the same person as the subject of this article? Is he alive? Is he even sick? Did he manage to have the false information printed in some reliable source, like an Arab language newspaper?
  • Did Coleman really receive a New England Emmy? Was it under his name or does he just posses the trophy awarded for collective work?
  • Is there someone else, who is trying to hurt Coleman by posting false information?
  • Why is all this happening?

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to answer what I can here.
  • Celia Timpany is a person, her identity is irrelevant to this discussion, but has been confirmed to OTRS. Cecelia Timpany is a pseudonym used by online identities to harrass Celia Timpany.
  • How Celia knows Coleman is also irrelevant.
Finally, Coleman has done some considerably wierd stuff both online and off in the past. I would not be surprised in the slightest if Coleman was the one pushing his own fake death on Wikipedia. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Celia responds

I am fully aware of how things are done on Wikipedia, and this is not the way. However, at the risk of brisk retaliation from Coleman, who is very much alive, I will offer up the facts. The chaos ruling on this page is what Coleman thrives on, the following subjects should be laid to rest.

I do not know any of your credentials either but will answer your questions in good faith. For the sake of transparency and credibility, which is sadly lacking, I am using my legal name Cecilia Timpany (known as Celia). Selene Leigh is not the e-mail address registered with Wikipedia but it does belong to me. Coleman is operating an e-mail account in my name – [email protected] which does not belong to me. I have one purpose and that is to stop Coleman abusing my name and impersonating me. I have no reason to fabricate and no interest in whether these facts are accepted or not. Delete as you wish.

  • I had the misfortune to work with Coleman for a brief period in mid 2009. There is no relationship and no marriage. Fake marriage notices citing Coleman and myself are posted online.
  • He has been separated from his second wife Marie Claire (a Lebanese national) for a large part of their +/- 24 year association. According to one of his many Facebook profiles, they reconciled in December 2009. They have 3 adult children residing in Tallahassee. He has two children from his first marriage.
  • Lex Coleman was Employed by AUT, Lebanon for an undetermined period.
  • There is only one Lester Knox Coleman III. He has one sister, no brothers.
  • He suffered a stroke a few years ago in Lebanon and one of the twin death rumours was based on that.
  • He had a heart attack in August 2009 and subsequent bypass surgery at a hospital in Tallahassee from which he recovered fully.
  • Coleman was born in September 1943.
  • In spite of the recent posts and speculation, he is very much alive at this stage. He created a new Facebook profile in my name in late July, details available.
  • Wikieditor4508 is Coleman, 4508 is part of my personal details which he uses randomly.
  • The twins hoax was perpetrated by Coleman, he told me this when questioned about the photo created in photoshop, duplicating a young Lester to create the impression of twins. This was done to divert one (of many) he believes, persecuting him at the time. He describes it as a bad idea but will not debunk it.
  • He has the skills to falsify and publish a death notice, a similar notice was published in the Arab press some time ago – link available on request.
  • There are many unsubstantiated and some downright untrue positions and claims posted. Far too many to list here. Links available.
  • He claims to be the heir to the Coleman Corporation (outdoor supplies) hard copy of claim available.
  • He has not worked for the cruiseline since July 2009, one of his Facebook profiles claims he is currently employed by them.
  • Coleman has many and varied persona, 2 of them female – excluding the profiles created in my name.
  • He impersonated an attorney for a while until I got a denial from said attorney. Names and hard copy available on request.

From my experience and research, most of the abounding (miss) information is perpetuated by Coleman himself using different persona. Having been at the receiving end of Coleman’s random and devastating attacks for almost a year, I have done a great deal of research and have a fair idea of the reasons for the subterfuge but it remains an opinion and I will refrain. I will answer questions if it is helpful and I have the facts at hand - see above e-mail address.

CeciliaT (talk) 22:22, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

By way of confirmation as it is already blocked - on 17 March 2010, Lester Coleman e-mailedme from the address [email protected] - address AUT Foundation New York Office 41 West 72nd St Suite 7-A New York, NY 10023 www.autfoundation.org CeciliaT (talk) 06:09, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

On 18 August 2010 Lester Coleman posted a video named "Wiki Truth - The Lester Coleman papers" on the site Animoto. Screen shots of many documents. The post appears on the Facebook page of Don Violett, a Coleman alias. A photo of Coleman appears, his friend list include his childrenn, Sarah, Josh & Chad Coleman. CeciliaT (talk) 04:26, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Adding unexplained content

Adding snippets of weak claims is less useful than nothing at all, an addition should not leave the reader asking what what when where and how. Off2riorob (talk) 11:29, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

  • That's not a weak claim. That is everything that is known. He was convicted of possession counts. We just don't know of what.
  • We have every right to add what we know at the time and find more later. It is better to have the reader " asking what what when where and how" than for the reader to not know anything about a case.
  • Wikipedia is a work in progress, and it is justifiable to add things in steps. Articles are not fully formed upon creation.
  • If something is incomplete and correctly shown as such, someone who knows the rest can always come in and fill in the blanks
  • WhisperToMe (talk) 16:43, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

That is the issue, those details have been searched for and searched for and they ass yet have not been reliably cited. The creation of a weakly cited and unexplained rap sheet is not a BLP either. Off2riorob (talk) 21:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

"and they ass yet have not been reliably cited" - The Lexington Herald-Leader certainly is a reliable source
"of a weakly cited and unexplained rap sheet is not a BLP either." Because it is sourced from the Lexington Herald-Leader and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, it is strongly cited and it is compliant with BLP. And once the resource requests are fulfilled, we will have two articles that discuss the issue and present the full picture.
We use our media articles to determine what is important about a person. With biography articles that do not have a whole lot of information, like Lester Coleman, we use whatever we can get our hands on. With people who have a wealth of information, then we can pick and choose (and/or relegate other information to subpages)
You can check the progress at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request#Atlanta_Journal_Constitution_and_Lexington_Herald-Leader:Lester_Coleman
WhisperToMe (talk) 22:04, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I have searched a fair bit, multiple editors have. Best of luck. Off2riorob (talk) 22:16, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Alrighty :) - I'll see if I can find more, and see if they have more perspectives and information. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:17, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
I would like to see in the article where he was born and when and where he went to school and such biographical details, where he is and what he is doing now. Has he got any children or brothers. Off2riorob (talk) 22:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

overturned

I have seen this around , it is correct isn't it? have we any cites for it? Off2riorob (talk) 09:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what the Post said but the statement is not correct. See the section above titled RfC on removal of offending paragraph for the full story with numerous reliable sources. Looie496 (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I have seen this around and searched for a times link to the actual story but not been able to, can anyone find it or anything in US court records to support it...

The plea agreement was overturned by the US 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals Appeals|date=2002-04-16 after ruling Coleman's plea was invalidly obtained.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.timesoflondon.co.uk.|title=???|publisher=[[Times of London]]|date=2002}}</ref> {{fact}} Off2riorob (talk) 16:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

wikieds: This fact should be added to the article. It confirms Coleman has no conviction or police record, as the article as written now implies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.164.150.47 (talk) 18:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

  • It doesn't work. There is no article link. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:26, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Here is a source, that says the conviction was overturned by an appellate court in 1999:

It again cites as its source Times, UK, 13 June 1999. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I found the original Sunday Times article:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

    • Technically that page is on a listserv. It will be best to find the actual original or a link to a "pay for access" copy of the original. Right now google news is down, so I can't search for the archive page... - Also the listserv comment "Of COURSE all MENTION of this entire case has been utterly BLOCKED from the news in the United States." does not sound credible to me - Between the various press outlets from Alabama (where Coleman was from) and the national ones, I would imagine at least one American news agency would also report about this. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
      • Google news has no record of "Court clears Lockerbie claim agent" - The only Google hit for "Court clears Lockerbie claim agent" is this Wikipedia talk page. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:51, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
There is an on-line archive available here but the database seems to have gone offline. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
To get "The Sunday Times" results I set "both publications".
With that I set the search times from 1 May 1999 to 1 August 1999.
"Lockerbie" is the search term
And I found it:
"The Sunday Times SUN 13 JUN 1999 Ed: 2sn Pg: Scotland News 6 Word Count: 390 Court clears Lockerbie claim agent A FORMER American intelligence officer convicted of perjury after alleging United States complicity in the Lockerbie bombing has been cleared by a court of appeal. Lester Coleman, who was convicted of perjury last year, had the verdict overturned las... "
WhisperToMe (talk) 22:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
According to the listserv, the article says:
"A FORMER American intelligence officer convicted of perjury after
alleging United States complicity in the Lockerbie bombing has been
cleared by a court of appeal.
Lester Coleman, who was convicted of perjury last year, had the verdict
overturned last month. He is living with his wife and three children in
Kentucky and in the past few days has launched an action for $10m
against the American government.
Three judges issued a sealed ruling, an unusual step which means that
not even Coleman and his lawyers can read why they quashed his
conviction. Reporting restrictions also ensured the case received little
attention in the United States."
I wonder where I can find a record stating that the sealed ruling exists.
Even though the article says "the case received little attention in the United States" that still means that there should be a second source from another publication that discusses the case. The source could be another British newspaper or a newspaper of another nationality that did not directly get its statements from The Sunday Times.
On my draft I am going to say "The Sunday Times reported that Coleman's conviction had been overturned." But for me to say it with certainty I need additional sources.
WhisperToMe (talk) 22:57, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#How_to_find_a_record_of_a_sealed_conviction - Hopefully they will help find more resources and/or clear this up. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:10, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Inmate Locator

I have removed the following new text and reference form the article as it uses a primary source unfit for a WP:BLP.

Lester Coleman served time in the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) system. Coleman, BOP#47321-019, was released on December 7, 2000.
"Lester Coleman." Federal Bureau of Prisons. Retrieved on September 21, 2010.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:53, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Petri, when you refer to policies like BLP, please also mention which section you are using to justify your decision, and maybe quote some text. That way the other party knows exactly how you are justifying what you are saying.
Firstly, incarceration of adults in the United States is not viewed as a privacy matter. The Federal Bureau of Prisons and various states make adult incarceration records a public matter. Some departments even post photographs and previous incarceration records. With juveniles sentenced as juveniles it is viewed as a privacy matter, so for juvenile records one has to rely on secondary sources. Other countries do view incarceration records as something to keep private.
Wikipedia:BLP#Misuse_of_primary_sources says:
"Exercise caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses. Where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source, subject to the restrictions of this policy, no original research, and the other sourcing policies."
We know he was sent to federal prison (source: "METRO NEWS BRIEFS: NEW YORK; Informer Admits Lying In Pan Am Crash Case"), and that can be sourced to a secondary source. For some odd reason I can't find his ID number in secondary sources. I'm looking to see if secondary sources mention his release date. Anyway, I am arguing that I am using the BOP information to augment the secondary source, as explained by the BLP section I quoted. His imprisonment would be material that would also be covered in that primary source, so I am using the BOP record to augment the secondary source material about his imprisonment.
Also the BOP record includes his age, but it does not contain his date of birth or other personal details. His BOP number cannot be used to get any additional personal details.
WhisperToMe (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
The reliable source (NYT) says he was released in 1997. You cannot use a primary source to claim that he was in prison in 2000, if that is not supported by a primary source. Besides, the record you found could as well be some other Lester Coleman – its not a very unusual name. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:30, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
The NYT article in question is:
"METRO NEWS BRIEFS: NEW YORK; Informer Admits Lying In Pan Am Crash Case." The New York Times. September 12, 1997
The article doesn't say anything about him being released (word search for "releas..." turns up nothing).
The text that talks about his imprisonment is:
"Mr. Coleman faced up to five years' imprisonment and a $250,000 fine on each of the five counts to which he pleaded guilty yesterday. In a plea agreement, however, the Government agreed to a sentence of time served, which was five months, and six months' home confinement under electronic monitoring, according to court documents."
And we know this sentence was enacted as of the date of publication because:
"[...]a $250,000 fine on each of the five counts to which he pleaded guilty yesterday."
That was the only Lester Coleman that has been sentenced into the BOP since 1982 - http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp shows a listing of all federal inmates from 1982 to present
This link also says "Please note: It is possible that a record may exist for an individual who was in BOP custody but never served a sentence of incarceration (e.g., a person was detained pre-trial but criminal charges were dismissed, held as a material witness, held for civil contempt)." - So every type of person who entered the federal civilian prison system is covered.
We know Lester Coleman entered the BOP system. Type in his name at http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp and there is only one Lester Coleman. If there were multiple Lester Colemans, then one would have to figure out which one it is based upon age, release date, or race.
WhisperToMe (talk) 06:34, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Searching with the ID number returns interesting results – I accept it is the same person.
Yes, something happened in 2000. I do not know if it is notable. If you want to include it in the article, you will have to find reliable sources. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:51, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Now we know what happened in 2000 :) WhisperToMe (talk) 23:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Details_of_Lester_Coleman.27s_imprisonment - I thought a noticeboard post will help determine what to do in this case.
WhisperToMe (talk) 07:32, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Imprisonment sources

"COLEMAN SOUGHT IN PROBATION VIOLATION, TALK-SHOW HOST NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE KY." Lexington Herald-Leader. August 24, 2002. C1 City&Region.
and
"CONSPIRACY THEORIES: Outlandish claims can hit close to home." Atlanta Journal-Constitution. April 30, 2000. C5.
Some text inside: "... of the theory's primary author a man by the name of Lester Knox Coleman ... Coleman has since been convicted of federal charges of perjury and state ... "
I may need to do resource requests on both
WhisperToMe (talk) 09:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
There are other related stories on the Lexington Herald on the 2000 "check fraud" conviction. I do not think you really need to see more that is available without payment. If you write a section on this, you are free to use the primary source to collaborate the other sources. However, I am still not convinced that this meets the notability criteria. Besides, I you include any of this, you must also include the other side of the story – Coleman and his supporters claiming that all of this is part of a Government conspiracy to silence him. As the US government is a party to this story, we cannot really take their statements as reliable sources, least of all, facts. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, if the "other side of the story" is documented in these articles (or even in self-made publications from Coleman), then I'll include the "other side." If it isn't, then I won't. Wikipedia:NPOV#Due_and_undue_weight says very clearly:
"Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint, giving them "due weight"."
So "the other side" will be given whatever proper "weight" that will be allotted to it
WhisperToMe (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Resource requests have been filed: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request#Atlanta_Journal_Constitution_and_Lexington_Herald-Leader:Lester_Coleman WhisperToMe (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
On the problems on writing articles on dissidents and whistle blowers, take the example of Yelena Maglevannaya. Look at this source and tell me if you would trust anything the Russian courts say? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:13, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
In any case the reliable sources will be our guide for how to write the article about him and how to weigh. In the case of Maglevannaya, she has a Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting article that is about her: http://pulitzercenter.org/blog/untold-stories/chechnya-russia-journalist-prisons-torture-censorship-elena-maglevannaya - That would be used to show that a group of people have doubts about the validity of her conviction. In fact, I would imagine that other media sources would be talking about the Pulitzer Center report.
Anyway, I got a full copy of the Atlanta Journal article, so I'll be working with that.
WhisperToMe (talk) 18:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

BLPN

There is a thread regarding this article at the BLPN here. Off2riorob (talk) 19:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

And the new RFC over more revised additions: Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Lester_Coleman_request_for_comment WhisperToMe (talk) 19:44, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
It is interesting, that we can say, someone worked for th KGB, but we cannot say Coleman worked for the DIA. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, in Coleman's case whether he worked for the agency or not is disputed. The neutral way of dealing with this is saying Coleman says A, other guy says B. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Name in Arabic

Lester Coleman does not hold citizenship in an Arab state, and he is not of Arab descent. I do not believe that his name in Arabic should be posted. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, that is one point but there are claims although with issues as regards Arabic life connections, we curently have this about Lebanon in the article - Coleman has said that he ran a DIA covert operation backing a Chrstian militia in Lebanon, known as the Lebanese Forces (Samir Ghea Ghea), during the Lebanese Civil War - clearly related t Arabibic reading users and the is no big issue with having the Arabic so in the not controversial content situation I actually don't see worthy needs to remove it. Also looking up on the talkpage we have a Lebonese portal template which assets interest from that locality and also in regards to Arabic speaking people.Off2riorob (talk) 19:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Citizenship and descent are not the only reasons why an Arabic version of a name might be used. The subject of the article claims to have been involved in some notable things in the middle East (that's what this article is, after all) so I have no objection to keeping an Arabic version of his name. As long as it's accurate, of course ;-) bobrayner (talk) 10:59, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
There is also another point. As he is well known in the Arab world, his name often appears in the Arab press – as evident in the Sources in Arabic? section above and this Google search: ليستر كولمان ك. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:04, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
I make a point of adding Arabic names to biographies whenever I see a page with the Arabic lacking, but I am clear that adding an Arabic transcription of Coleman's name is NOT appropriate here. The purpose of the opening sentence of a bio is to define the subject, and, since he is not of Arab ancestry and was not given an Arab name at birth nor assumed such a name in later life, an Arabic version of his name is irrelevant to that purpose. The arguments above, if taken seriously, would set the absurd precedent that any people who are active or well-known in foreign countries could have their names in all the languages of those countries added to the first sentence of their biographies. And, by the way, most of the hits in that google search on ليستر كولمان ك are not to Lester Coleman, but rather to such subjects as Leicester City Football Club, Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young, Ronnie Coleman, numerous other Colemans and references to Leicester - and even some hits on this talk page and Wikipedia mirror sites. --NSH001 (talk) 16:26, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Why must ancestry, or birth, or the type of passport he holds, be the only defining features that permit use of an alternative transcription of a name? Sounds slightly nationalist to me. Neither Coleman's birth nor ancestry are at all interesting or notable; he has a wikipedia article because he claims to have been involved in some interesting things in the middle east.
Homographs &c certainly pose a problem in translation and transcription, but I doubt that the mere existence of homophones should rule out the use of an Arabic rendering of a word. We know that there are other well-used terms that sound a bit like "lester"; it's not entirely surprising that when translated they will turn up in search results.
bobrayner (talk) 18:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
The reasons for a person's wiki-notability have nothing to do with his or her name. Think it through, please. Do you really want to see, say, "(Russian: Роберт Бёрнс)" at the start of the Robert Burns article? - he was hugely popular in the Soviet Union, after all. Let alone all the other possible languages? And the same for dozens of other internationally famous people? Follow it through, and this sets a ridiculous precedent.
The obvious, but minor, point about the google search is not that homophones exist, but that it (the search) doesn't prove any sort of notability in Arabic sources, as implied by the poster of that search - even if it were relevant to the question of his name. And, by the way, I said nothing about nationality or "type of passport".
--NSH001 (talk) 19:25, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
I find NSH001's point convincing. Many people of American and/or English descent are known across many countries, but it doesn't mean we should post their names in alternate scripts. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:02, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
If no other discussion occurs, I am going to remove the Arabic once the RFC ends. Because NSH001 made a very valid point about this, his rationale stands. If you still support Arabic, you need to directly respond to his posts. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:40, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
There is no consensus to remove it here and it is not a BLP issue, there is no reason to remove. Off2riorob (talk) 21:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
NSH001 made his post in response to yours and Petri's. bobrayner challenged his posts, but NSH001 explained why his point is correct. If you want to challenge his vision, you have to directly respond to his post.
Talk:Lester_Coleman#Name_in_Arabic says "Consensus discussion have a particular form: editors try to persuade others, using reasons based in policy, sources, and common sense. The goal of a consensus discussion is to reach an agreement about article content, one which may not satisfy anyone completely but which all editors involved recognize as a reasonable exposition of the topic." - You want to persuade NSH001 that you are right.
No, this isn't a BLP issue, but it still is a matter of discussion.
WhisperToMe (talk) 21:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
From RFC - Cant see any reason why his name is in arabic normally you would only expect a translation to a native name. Although the article doesnt actually say what nationality he is. As this is English wikipedia if he is notable in arabic then all that is needed is cross link to the arabic artice in the language section. MilborneOne (talk) 19:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
According to sources his wife is Arabic and Arabic is the language used my his children at home. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes but this is English wikipedia not Arabic wikipedia the name is only for information if it is native to the non-english subject. Really need evidence that the subject's name is normally in arabic and we (or a reliable source) have translated it into English. Bit like when then article title is in a foreign language then the same is done back to English in the lead. MilborneOne (talk) 19:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
Milborne, Coleman is an American from the State of Alabama. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:41, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Whisper, so no need for an Arabic name. The fact he is an American might be something more helpful in the article lead. MilborneOne (talk) 06:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Sources

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Sources in Arabic?

We finally have a transcription of the name into Arabic. The two Google searches will help find sources: ليستر كولمان ك and "ليستر كولمان" – Note, that copy pasting Arabic is a real pain in the ass :-( -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

John Ashton in the June 9, 1996 edition of The Mail on Sunday

This is an interesting summary, ...originally a journalist in the 1980s http://www.copi.com/articles/lockerbie.html Originally Appeared in June 9, 1996 edition of The Mail on Sunday - London , I will look for the original as we could add some content from there and it is a reliable citation. Off2riorob (talk) 23:06, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Here is a {{Cite journal}} template for you. It could also be useful in Pan Am Flight 103 conspiracy theories and The Maltese Double Cross – Lockerbie.
I really do not know who this John Ashton is, doesn't seem to be listed on the dab page. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is another interesting reference:
-- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
  • This doesn't seem like an RS. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:23, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

New York Magazine

I went looking for sources and found something useful:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:38, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Here is another one:

I cannot find an on-line version anywhere, not even in the Time archive. It may be that Time have retracted their story after this lawsuit. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 07:30, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Correction: Found it! the story is not titled The Untold Story of Pan Am 103 as all other sources claim, but Pan Am 103 Why Did They Die?. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 07:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

More sources

I'll have to think about how to fit this into the page, but...

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:38, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Some more:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Coleman's web pages:

These are not reliable sources but point to things to look for. Could be used in an External links section. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:25, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

As for the Lexington articles, I posted resource requests for them too. Hopefully someone will supply the three articles so that we can use them as sources. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
By the way, I commented here: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Lester Coleman request for comment. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Good :) - Hopefully once these resource requests are fulfilled we will get a fuller picture of Lester Coleman's legal involvements.WhisperToMe (talk) 16:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

More Lexington Herald sources:

And one from a Chicago newspaper:

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

    • I have obtained this source! WhisperToMe (talk) 22:04, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I made a search for "Lester Coleman" in the Times archive. The 1999 story is the latest. From the two October 1996 stories we get this information: Coleman returned to his home state of Alabama after a six-year exile in Sweden and Spain. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:11, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised that he returned to Alabama, as it's his home state. The other sources I found stated that the Alabama governor negotiated his return, and then Coleman was arrested by federal agents upon his arrival in Atlanta. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

There is another attack against Coleman by Christopher Byron in the New York Magazine:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Not a reliable source, but interesting reading: RE: U.S. Violates Rights of Pan Am 103 Witness – July 17, 1997. See the directory for more conspiracy theory. It seems that Christopher Byron has something personal against Coleman. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this is from Trail of the Octopus. You are right it isn't an RS.
The Trail of the Octopus was printed in 1993, the other material is from 1997 and late 1990s. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
BTW it may not be a good idea to post non-RS, non-self-primary sources related to living people: Wikipedia:BLP#Where_BLP_does_and_does_not_apply says that BLP applies to talk pages too, not just article pages. To my knowledge Christopher Byron is still alive. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The prosecutor in United States v. Lester Coleman:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:48, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Google Books

This is what get on Google Books searching for "lester coleman" lockerbie. The top results seem to be supportive on Coleman. The dissenter is Micheal T. Hurley, the DEA chief in Nicosia who is the villain in Coleman's book – clearly a conflict of interest. Hurley states Coleman was a DEA and DIA paid informant, not a professional agent. Many of the reliable sources however claim Coleman was an DIA agent.

Reliable source saying Coleman is innocent:

This book from 2001 does not believe in the "conspiracy theory", but says Coleman was a DIA agent. (This claim has been removed from the article as unsourced.)

Micheal T. Hurley smashes Coleman:

Coleman was CIA agent for eight years! (This may be fantasy, but it is what the RS says.)

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

    • I used the Palgrave Macmillan source. The article already has Boohaker saying that Coleman worked for the DIA. Silverpeak Enterprises AFAIK is not a usable publisher.
    • We can use Greenwood Publishing Group's content
    • Hurley's book is published by iUniverse, a self-publishing company, so we can only use Hurley's book to talk about Hurley himself. We can't use it to talk about Coleman, as per WP:BLP, because Hurley's book is self published. We can use it to find more information, i.e. see if any other articles talk about the case.
    • WhisperToMe (talk) 00:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

60 Minutes TV program

One of the New Yorker issues talks about a 60 Minutes episode all about Lester Coleman.

What is the name? Where can I find a script? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

According to Coleman's book, SQUEAL--Inside the New England Mafia, Coleman was a former investigative producer for 60 Minutes. The program never aired a piece ABOUT Coleman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.233.206.24 (talk) 01:53, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Poorly Edited Article

This article is very poorly researched, and unattributed contains false statements, dated references, omissions of material facts including the documented death of this subject, Lester Coleman ( April 2010 )by the United States Embassy, Beirut, where he passed away. Omitted is the documented reversal of convictions in the US District Court, Eastern District of NY, 04/-6/2000, and the subsequent SEALED Tort settlement paid ( six figures ) by the US Justice Department to Coleman for illegal incarceration. Coleman had no convictions in any jurisdiction that were not expunged under the settlement agreement. Wiki is depending on "published" news accounts while ignoring truths that were not published due to confidential agreement limitations. Wiki should either delete this article or correct the content that is slanerously inaccurate . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newssmith (talk • contribs) 17:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Show some evidence. Everything in the article is documented. Can you actually point to the documentation for any of the things you are claiming? Looie496 (talk) 18:32, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, contradictory evidence via proper sources are required, otherwise the article will remain the same.MilkStraw532 (talk) 18:49, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Newssmith: Wikipedia uses verifiability as one of its core principles. WP:V says that truth is not a criterion for inclusion. It's verifiability. Now, I know there is a Social Security death index, but I'm not sure if that would be reliable. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:55, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Our M.A. candidates in the Department Communications has been researching the Coleman affair for this academic year. Our findings contradict many elements featured in the wikipedia article, many to such an extent to be subjective assumptions and hear-say. If the wiki-editors wish to review our research and conclusions please respond. Otherwise they will be published on the aut.edu/faculty/arts/science site in September, 2012. One element you may wish to address that is from a "published" source in a recent article in The Hearld in Scotland revealing previously undisclosed documents that support Coleman's conclusions in the book, Trail of the Octopus, published in Arabic from Edam Press, and English from Bloomsbury, Signet, and 1stPrime (2009) released via www.amazon.com and www.amazon.co.uk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Autfaculty (talk • contribs) 18:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you give a more usable pointer to that Herald article? The title, for example? Looie496 (talk) 19:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

New sources

These sources were provided by Sure Footed1. They may contain content which could be incorporated into this article.

--NeilN talk to me 21:56, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Research needed

I would be willing to do some research work in my spare time later, to validate his asylum claims. It might involve contacting the Swedish government - but he claims he used a false-name to cover-up his existence in hiding. There seems to be documents in his book, which validate that the U.S. government was seeking to have him extradited.

He might have information himself, or be willing to provide release on some of his book material to Wikipedia. We'd have to see. Maybe later. Sure Footed1 (talk) 23:24, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

It would be interesting to follow-up on the Murrow and Emmy claims, as well, by contacting the entities that disseminate the awards. Because the info is not online. Sure Footed1 (talk) 23:26, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
For an article that has been abused as much as this one, it is absolutely necessary that any added information be fully compliant with WP:RS. If information comes from anything other than a high-quality published source, we can't trust it. Looie496 (talk) 01:05, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Possible WP:BLP abuse of Mr. Coleman

I am more concerned about the abuse of Mr. Coleman himself, than "abuse of an article". From appearances, the article is highly slanted in the direction of the government's case; and in that light may be viewed as defamatory (Recall: WP:BLP). This is an acknowledged case of a government asset (or informant) who apparently whistleblew in a politically-charged situation that involved loss of life, and he wound-up being dumped-on IRL, probably by the U.S. media, and later, "on Wikipedia" (i.e. if he was just a criminal, then "who cares" - there are tons of criminals in the United States, i.e. this seems more like 'something else'). Such as concerns Wikipedia: There may be abuse that's gone on here and I think that it's worth-it to do some extra-work to validate evidence for a more balanced point of view that would be appropriate.Sure Footed1 (talk) 08:39, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

You know, if Mr. Snowden didn't have Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras and governmental support of the Latin American countries (and Russia) he would have *very* different U.S. press, and his Wikipedia page would be presented "something-like a government rap-sheet of a serial-killer" (to be sarcastic about it). Just trying to add some perspective here. When an individual goes up-against these agencies, the odds are stacked against them, both judicially and in the media. Sure Footed1 (talk) 08:43, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
The job of an encyclopedia is to report what reliable sources are saying. Not to try and uncover the truth ourselves, or "tell the other side". If reliable sources are presenting multiple angles, we will present multiple angles. If reliable sources present a single angle, we will present a single angle. Of course, we need to make clear what is a fact, what is an allegation, and where allegations originate from. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:49, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Exaggeration does not help your case. Almost the entire lede is dedicated to what Coleman has said and a possible conspiracy theory. Subsequent paragraphs cover Coleman's activities and state his views. Perjury charges, extradition, plea agreement also explicitly mentions Coleman's DA, support from MP's and the overturning of his perjury conviction. State charges, federal and state incarceration covers Coleman's suit and dismissal. --NeilN talk to me 14:39, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
That's not exaggeration whatsoever. The focus is on allegations that the man is a criminal, and the presentation is *anything* but balanced. There's plenty of published sources that show him seeking asylum, attempts to extradite him, documents that corroborate his claim of being an intelligence officer (etc). In fact, the *huge* emphasis on denigrating the man - in real life, as well as on Wikipedia - makes me more skeptical that there was something-fishy behind the publications. Sure Footed1 (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
This is very similar to the (old-time) D Brandt affair, frankly. It's BLP abuse. Sure Footed1 (talk) 21:20, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Well you have at least two options. Bring out more information from the sources already present in the article or present new sources and article modifications, something you said you'd be doing for a while now. --NeilN talk to me 00:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
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