Talk:Laura Bell (courtesan)

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Laura Bell was from Belfast!!! She was NOT English.

Improper speedy deletion tag

Speedy deletion is only for topics that do not have any attempt to establish notability. This person was famous and featured in many books, so clearly does not meet speedy deletion criteria. On top of that, the person who added the tag i a new editor account created today with an extremely bizarre editing history consisting of a few minor typo edits but primarily jumping in out of the blue to AFD arguments and then going around and tagging pretty much every article I created with ridiculous tags that clearly have no justification, purely out of spite. Not only should this article not be deleted, the person who tagged it should be blocked as it is a harassment-only account, probably a sockpuppet of someone involved in the [[Tim Cotterill page that I listed for deletion. DreamGuy (talk) 18:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

• I have nominated this article for deletion because it gives no indication of nobility, and has no references. Further, it has been asserted way back in November 2006 (on this page) that the facts contained in the article are inacurate ("Laura Bell was from Belfast!!! She was NOT English.") with no attempted to correct or reference the disputed fact. The creator claim of bad faith is ludicrous. I did not tag all of his articles, only those that were deserving. DreamGuy, who is protecting his articles, removed tags placed without addressing the legitimate concerns. If not Speedy Delete, then should go to AfD. Wordssuch (talk) 19:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Notability and references are both already present in the article. Speedy delete was properly declined, and an admin has warned you that your actions could get you banned. Enough said there, I think. DreamGuy (talk) 19:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Additional material

• The ODNB has quite an extensive bio on Laura Thistlethwayte : [1]
• Quite a breezy review of her life can be found in a chapter of Feminine Frailty (1929) by Horace Wyndham (1873-1970) : [2]
• West (2006) looks in closer detail at Thistlethwayte's interactions with Gladstone: [3]
• User:Tagishsimon discovers that Robert Browning was not a fan: [4]
• 2008 book about her: Laura Bell Courtesan and Lay Preacher by Anthony S. Drennan [5] (not consulted)

Likenesses

• The Wallace Collection has a miniature that may be of Thistlethwayte (the ODNB says "Laura Bell?") [6]
• Portraits are also known by Richard Buckner [7] (image also appeared on the cover of Drennan's 2008 book [8]); and by A.B. Clayton, according to the ODNB. (? = Alfred Bowyer Clayton (Q48694657), artist of engravings of the Liverpool and Manchester railway ???)
• Another picture from the blog at [9] is not in fact Laura, but Elizabeth Catherine Thistlethwayte (nee Packenham) (cf [10][11]), who married Thomas Thistlethwayte (familysearch / the peerage), a half-brother of Laura's husband from his father's previous marriage.

t.b.continued Jheald (talk) 16:42, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@Jheald: Some useful sources there. Thanks. --John B123 (talk) 17:23, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Some further odds and ends:

• 2018 blog by Geri Walton
• Vicinity of Woodbine Cottage, Thistlethwayte's last house, as presented on various maps between 1750 and 2000. (cf also Layers of London). I like the idea that it was apparently "still large enough to support her pet deer" [12][13]
• Bust of Gladstone by Thistlethwayte in Dingwall Museum (via Art UK)

  I was initially a bit suspicious about whether this was indeed by Thistlethwayte, given that the ODNB seemed somewhat circumspect about such abilities, saying only that she may have had "some hand" in the modelling of one of the lions in Trafalgar Square. But no, it seems this scultpure was indeed something she had set her hand to. West (2006) [14] cites Gladstone writing of Mrs Gladstone not being very happy when informed in January 1875 by him of his "sitting for Mrs. Thistlethwayte, ‘at great inconvenience’ to himself, for a bust in clay"; nor his further explanation of "the latter's talent for sculpture, the admiration of the piece by others and the creator's plan to present the bust to Catherine and to donate the money from casts to her charitable homes." It is not clear that Mrs. G. was mollified to learn that "that clay was destroyed and she made the present bust without my sitting at all".

• A supposed depiction of Laura as a nun

Tagishsimon and I were intrigued by Horace Wyndham's digression at some length about a painting of her in the likeness of a nun (p.36), "which an enterprising manufacturer of boot polish adapted for advertising purposes" (p.35); from there the story also made its way into J.F. Burn's 1978 talk on Laura for the Lisburn Historical Society [15]; and the title of a 2004 piece for History Ireland magazine [16] ("'The Nun's' story"). Could more be found out about it ?

The "advertising" nun would seem to be a reference to the "Nun Nicer" image and slogan used to promote Cherry Blossom soap from 1884 by John Gosnell & Co (see eg examples at [17]). Although this firm and this product in fact is no relation to the famous Cherry Blossom boot polish made by Charles and Dan Manson in Chiswick from 1903 (history at eg [18]), the names may have been similar enough for Wyndham writing in 1929 to have confused them.

Wyndham is a bit cagey about who the artist was, that supposedly painted Laura, and whose work the advertising image was presumably based on. Burns (1979) says it is a famous portrait, he thinks by Millais. One famous picture by Millais involving a nun would be "The Vale of Rest", 1858/1862, (see commons image). But according to this piece, [19] (last para) the nun's head in that work was in fact repainted in 1862 after a "Miss Lane". And in any case, is it particularly close to the "Cherry Blossom" image?

So proper foundation of that element of the online material about Laura Bell eluded us. Jheald (talk) 14:51, 29 October 2019 (UTC)