Talk:L'italiana in Algeri

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Untitled[edit]

The title should really be L'italiana with a small i, but I am not sure how to edit this.

I have added a synopsis.

Kleinzach 01:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]


As a name, "Italiana" is written with a cap at the beginning. The correct title is "L'Italiana in Algeri" (see Italian version)

Why is Taddeo listed as a minor part? It's actually quite large. Certainly NOT a comprimario role. 69.178.122.114 09:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:LItaliana in Algeri DG.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

L'italiana in Algeri→ L'Italiana in Algeri[edit]

User:Awien, who requested the move,[1] was already reverted once for changing the capitalization in the article [2] and had been directed to WikiProject Opera Guidelines on orginal language titles. With no discussion whatsoever, he put in a request for a page move two hours later as "uncontroversial". The administrator there took his word for it and moved it. This has now caused problems with the Template:Rossini operas, producing redirects. "L' italiana" is not capitalized in Italian. The character's name is Isabella not Italiana. The definite article has nothing to do with it, despite the vagaries of the Italian Wikipedia. The "I" is not captitalized in the major reference books either, including Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians plus [3], [4], [5], [6] and the Fondazione Rossini's Centro Studi Rossiniani which produces critical editions of the scores. [7], [8]]. Voceditenore (talk) 18:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moved back, per message at my talk page. Any further moves should be formally requested at WP:RM, i.e., not listed as uncontroversial, and not done unilaterally without discussion.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:35, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalisation of Italiana[edit]

Here is the rule according to which Italiana needs to be capitalised:

"Capital letters are used in Italian as they are in English, except that small letters are used:

(a) With proper adjectives, unless used as nouns.

una grammatica italiana - an Italian grammar
But gl'Italiani - the Italians" (P. 12, section 17)

Practical Italian Grammar, Joseph Louis Russo PhD, London, George G. Harrap & Co. Ltd., 1964

L'Italiana as used in the opera title is a noun as covered by this definition, not as an adjective modifying a noun as would be the case with for example La ragazza italiana. It is true that usage is all over the place on this, but from the linguistic point of view, two things are clearly going on here:

1. hypercorrection - applying the lowercase rule too broadly
2. misunderstanding the grammatical function of the word Italiana - used as it is, it is in fact a noun. Compare “La bella Italiana venuta in Algeri insegna agli amanti gelosi ed alteri, che a tutti, se vuole, la donna la fa”. Even used in a title, the grammatical function is still the same. The fact of its not being her name is irrelevant.

Hope this helps. I sincerely had no idea I was stepping into such a hornets' nest. Awien (talk) 21:09, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The same rule as stated in the 100% Italian Italian grammar Lingua d'Italia, B. Migliorini & A. Leone, Felice Le Monnier, Firenze, 1963:
Si preferisce la maiuscola con i nomi che indicano persone appartenenti a nazione, regione o città: gli Italiani, i Piemontesi, i Palermitani (invece, con gli aggettivi: la civiltà italiana, i vini piemontese, l'eroismo palermitano).
Awien (talk) 02:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update Most of the discussion on this issue continued at the WikiProject Opera talk page here. Based on more recent Italian grammar books as well as the major opera reference works, the consensus was against the move. Voceditenore (talk) 10:24, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1825?[edit]

In § Performance history,

notable performances were presented from the 1920s in "Turin (1825), Rome (1927) and London (1935)"

is inconsistent. Though I can't check the source (print book), I'm changing the date of the Turin performance to 1925. --Thnidu (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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