Talk:Kulveer Ranger, Baron Ranger of Northwood

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Requested move 9 May 2024[edit]

It has been proposed in this section that Kulveer Ranger, Baron Ranger of Northwood be renamed and moved to Kulveer Ranger.

A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Kulveer Ranger, Baron Ranger of Northwood → Kulveer Ranger – WP:COMMONNAME. Ranger is almost exclusively referred to without the title, and WP:NCPEER explicitly states "peers who are almost exclusively known by their personal names" as an exception (although admittedly he hasn't got much media attention since the peerage). ^[1] ^[2] ^[3] ^[4] Couruu (talk) 16:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging AviationEnzo as an interested editor (changed title to current) - please feel free to state your opinion below. Couruu (talk) 16:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus view that this part of the thread went off topic Cambial — foliar❧ 11:42, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please could you state whether this would apply to the article name only? I ask, because a user earlier today changed 'The Lord Houchen of High Leven' to 'Ben Houchen' in the 'Orders of precedence in the United Kingdom' section at the bottom of the 'Kulveer Ranger, Baron Ranger of Northwood' page, citing 'MOS:LINKCLARITY'. To me, it now looks as though Ben Houchen is a commoner, and directly follows 'Baron of Northwood' as this. I understand that using 'best known' names is standard policy, but surely this is context-dependent. A similar thing has occurred with 'The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton' being altered to 'David Cameron' on 'Cabinet of the United Kingdom', even though his being a peer is the reason that he sits on that body. ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 17:08, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No it isn't. He's in the cabinet because Sunak appointed him. If anything, Cameron is a peer because (Sunak decided that) he sits on that body, not vice versa. Cambial — foliar❧ 18:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I could have phrased that better. I meant that the peerage was granted, in effect, to enable him to have a seat in the Cabinet. Therefore, in a list with most entries' being Members of Parliament − that is, categorically not peers − reference to his having been ennobled would be useful, I should have thought. It is simply an alternative view; last time I checked, this was allowed. ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 20:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Useful to what end? The point of WP:COMMONNAME is that people understand which individual (or other subject) is being referred to. "Lord Cameron of Chipping" is a name unrecognisable to all but some small fraction of our global readership. Those same readers will also not intuit from a name that this means he sits in a different chamber to others in the list. If you genuinely think that fact is important, add a note stating "sits as member of House of Lords" or similar. Including an unrecognisable name serves no purpose. Cambial — foliar❧ 20:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cambial Yellowing, that is your opinion. It looks as though we shall just have to agree to disagree. It happens. ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 22:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, I think that's a bit off topic! A redirect from "Baron Ranger of Northwood" would remain, so editors that wish to use the full title on other pages will be able to do so. My RM refers only to the title of this article, not its usage on other pages. Couruu (talk) 08:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in retrospect, I agree. However, I wished to know what other people's interpretations of 'WP:COMMONNAME' were, as my understanding was, and remains, that it is a section of a policy on 'Article titles', meaning that it governs just those, and need not be applied to all links to main articles. Thank you for responding, in any case. ZeroAlpha87 (talk) 09:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support As peers primarily known by their personal names should use that in the article title, per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NCPEER. AusLondonder (talk) 21:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://www.gbnews.com/royal/king-charles-brits-opens-hearts
^ https://reaction.life/on-the-couch-kulveer-ranger-lucy-beresford/
^ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/jan/30/gb-news-criticised-confusing-two-sikh-politicians-social-media-post
^ https://www.easterneye.biz/kulveer-singh-ranger-diversity-of-parliament-showcases-modernisation-of-british-politics/

[1] ttps://www.gbnews.com/royal/king-charles-brits-opens-hearts

[2] ttps://reaction.life/on-the-couch-kulveer-ranger-lucy-beresford/

[3] ttps://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/jan/30/gb-news-criticised-confusing-two-sikh-politicians-social-media-post

[4] ttps://www.easterneye.biz/kulveer-singh-ranger-diversity-of-parliament-showcases-modernisation-of-british-politics/

[1]

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[3]

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