Talk:Korean Air Flight 858

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This page really needs more sources - there seems a huge lack of hard evidence. Does anyone have a real source for the information about the explosives used? I havent yet found one. Justinc 09:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I found a New York Times article and an article originally in the Washington Post. The Post article is available directly from the Post online - for a fee, but the actual writer of the article, Peter Maass, has it available for free on his website. I also added the Aviation Safety Network link (which should be on all accidents listed in the ASN database), copyedited the text, and added information from the NYT and WP articles. I also noticed that it said that South Korean officials apprehended the spies - they were actually apprehended by Bahraini officials and the woman was returned to South Korea. (nit, I know, but still.)

One thing I took out was the following:

People who believe the event was a conspiracy perpetrated by someone other than the North Korean government say that the event was engineered by the South Korean authorities for political aims, citing a lack of hard evidence.

"People" is a bit of what Wikipedia's style manual calls a "weasel word". If we're going to state that somebody believes the South Koreans bombed the aircraft themselves, we need to attribute that to a specific individual or individuals, not to just "people". I think the Washington Post may have printed an article saying that family members called it terrorism, but the article is behind a paywall and all I can read is the first sentence or two. That's not enough (the first sentence could be misleading), and I don't live in the US so I can't get a copy of a clipping from the local library. If we can find something from a reliable source that states exactly who believes it was a conspiracy (other than the creator of that website, who could be one lone crank for all we know from the evidence we have), we should add it back in.

I also added some info on the terrorism angle. We shouldn't assert that an act is terrorism without providing evidence that a third party such as the State Department or the Government of South Korea or whoever considers it terrorism. Stating specifically who believes it's terrorism and providing a reference just removes any possibility that the notion that the bombing was terrorism (and not all bombings are - some are plain murders (the Albert Guay event, for instance) is original thought. --Charlene 20:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Being that Kim Hyon Hui was tried for it, found guilty, and sentenced to death, "people" in this context would be the government of South Korea. --User:directedition 13:31, 12 MAy 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.127.239.146 (talk)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Who is “Mr. Choi”?

...and why is his testimony significant? Please identify him more precisely and state why what his says should be given credence. A source would be nice, too. Jim_Lockhart (talk) 08:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

South Korean Electoral Device?

I just removed the following uncited and doubtful material from the article. If anyone has citations to back up these claims, please re-add the information with appropriate references.

However, according to the recent research activities of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it has been discovered that the terrorism attack was plotted by the government of dictator Chun Doo-hwan to help Roh Tae-woo to win the '87 south korean presidential election. The Commission pointed that, for example, the arrest and transfer of Kim Hyon Hui was made just two days before the election day, being broadcasted nationwide; thus ensuring Roh Tae-woo's victory. Roh Moo-hyun, the 16th president of South Korea, apologized to Kim jong il and North Korean in 2007 inter-korean summit, admitting that the explostion of the flight KE 858 is ultimately unrelated to North Korea. the United States subsequently removed North Korea from its list of states that sponsor terrorism.

Vectro (talk) 21:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Still C-class until the above unsourced allegations are positively confirmed or denied.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

South Korean Electoral Device?

I just removed the following uncited and doubtful material from the article. If anyone has citations to back up these claims, please re-add the information with appropriate references.

However, according to the recent research activities of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it has been discovered that the terrorism attack was plotted by the government of dictator Chun Doo-hwan to help Roh Tae-woo to win the '87 south korean presidential election. The Commission pointed that, for example, the arrest and transfer of Kim Hyon Hui was made just two days before the election day, being broadcasted nationwide; thus ensuring Roh Tae-woo's victory. Roh Moo-hyun, the 16th president of South Korea, apologized to Kim jong il and North Korean in 2007 inter-korean summit, admitting that the explostion of the flight KE 858 is ultimately unrelated to North Korea. the United States subsequently removed North Korea from its list of states that sponsor terrorism.

Vectro (talk) 21:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Still C-class until the above unsourced allegations are positively confirmed or denied.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Links to Iraq state terrorism?

This incident is listed on http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline_1987.Islam which lists various Arab / Muslim terror attacks. The attackers boarded the plane from Saddam airport, which they took an Iraq airway flight and exited in another Arab nation, the UAE and were tracked down to Bahrain. Iraqi airways. The guidance officers arrived in Serbia, and the mode of liquid explosives and planting the devices looks very much like the Bojinka plot where Ramzi Yousef also constructed a time bomb using liquid explosives planted in a seat, and leaving at an intermediate stop. Bojinka is an early evolution of the 9/11 attacks. Yousef also constructed the 1993 World Trade Center bomb, and is suspected of providing the inspiration or design of the similar Oklahoma City bomb. Yousef was suspected of links to Iraq, as were unindicted but likely co-conspirators of the OKbomb. Redhanker (talk) 20:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

November 29, 1987: In Thailand, the North Korean government was said to be behind the bombing of a Korean Air passenger plane which exploded in mid-air with 115 passengers and crew on board. The flight originated in Baghdad and stopped in Abu Dhabi before disappearing from radar screens while approaching Bangkok for a scheduled refueling stop. A North Korean man and woman had apparently used forged Japanese passports to disembark the plane in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain.

"Continuing tensions" section

The section "Continuing tensions" have no direct connection with the subject of the article, and it is covered in other articles on North-South relations. I propose the removal of the whole section from this article. --Joshua ^{Say "hi" to me!}_{What I've done?} 09:51, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It not only has nothing to do with the article, it is also seriously out of date, since it's basically a nice little ad. for the failed Sunshine Policy, which delivered millions of dollars to the North which they then spent on luxuries for the elite, and a nuclear weapons program. I will delete in one week, unless somebody objects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theonemacduff (talk • contribs) 21:55, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Why the handball pic?

Why is there a picture of handball being played in this article? I don't think it belongs in here.--Bluesoju (talk) 17:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Restoring controversy section

I added controversy section and was removed twice by unknowns/noname/anonymous users with IP addresses who didn't have any valid/reasonable reason to remove it. First IP just wrote NCE which I don't know what that suppose to mean, maybe he meant NCEO which if its that is still invalid as I haven't changed the meaning of the page. A is still A. Second IP complained about english and removed it instead of attempting notify me about it and or correct the grammar. Lastly brain dead bot removed my last edit in which I fixed most if not all issues that native english speaker could have had with grammar of the content. Then administrator locked it for supposed edit warring while ignoring those reasons are not valid enough to remove content I added. Chernobog95 - 26 September 2017 23:05 GTM1+ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chernobog95 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

There really is no "controversy" about the bombing. We know who did it, why they did it, and who set them on the path to doing it. Some left-wing politicians in South Korea trotted out the theory that it was actually South Korea who did the bombing, but that was only ever bogus political nonsense. There is a very strong anti-American sentiment among some on the left in South Korea, and so whenever the North is caught doing something particularly crappy, like sinking a South Korean ship with a torpedo, these politicians can be counted on to start clouding the issue with chat about how the South Korean military (or intelligence services, or whatever) is actually responsible and probably acting at the behest of its American colonialist masters. But like other conspiracy theorists, they never offer direct proof, only a "balance of probabilities" approach that crumbles the instant it is confronted with actual evidence. The Southern politicians who do this are mostly members of the 386 Generation, and their continuing use of this trope, even in the face of contradiction by facts, is for me evidence of an overall cynicism and bad faith, that is, they seem to operate out of the belief that most of the electorate is too stupid to think for themselves. (For a good book on conspiracy thinking, see Counterknowledge.)Theonemacduff (talk) 22:06, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

you wrote "We know ... why they did it". If so, please add this to the article! Because right now there is no explanation at all in respect to the motive of NK for this act of terror at all, and in particular no explanation why this flight became a target! Given the capability of NK shown to plant a bomb, there would have very likely been more prominent targets, especially inside SK. The only connection this had to Korea was the fact that it was a South Korean Airline, but the bombing took place between Abu Dhabi and Thailand... Why didn't they set the bomb to detonate on the approach to Gimpo airport? What did NK expect to achieve with this act of terror, in particular when denying responsibility for it even after the bombing succeeded? 84.57.91.7 (talk) 14:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

NK motive?

Not one fragment of text even tries to discuss the motive behind the action. This is a testament to the absurd dehumanization of north korea and the collective ideological malformation that completely annihilatates any ability for reasonable intellectual engagement with north korea in the english-speaking world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.213.87.99 (talk) 15:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)