Talk:Komm, gib mir deine Hand / Sie liebt dich

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Good articleKomm, gib mir deine Hand / Sie liebt dich has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 16, 2021Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 10, 2010.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that The Beatles recorded "Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand" and "Sie Liebt Dich" because the German label Odeon Records insisted that they record their hit songs in German to generate more sales there?

Move request[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. If we need to discuss the need for extra spaces, please start a second RM. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand / Sie Liebt Dich → Komm, gib mir deine Hand / Sie liebt dich – Work titles in German aren't capitalised unless German grammar asks for it. --The Evil IP address (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Chart[edit]

Did the single chart in Germany? Was it ever released in East Germany? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As for East Germany, I think only about three or four Beatles sampler LPs were released there during the 70s and 80s by Amiga with a random mixed bag from their entire career, akin to A Collection of Beatles Oldies and The Essential Beatles. --46.93.158.170 (talk) 19:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've looked up all the East-German Beatles releases by Amiga on discogs:
  • 1964: Ain't She Sweet / Cry For A Shadow[5], single release
  • 1965: It Won't Be Long / Devil In Her Heart[6], single release
  • 1965: Sweet Georgia Brown / Why[7], single release of two songs from the My Bonnie album where "The Beat Brothers" backed Sheridan
  • 1966: The Beatles - Big Beat[8], East-German LP compilation of Beatles songs, sourced from the first two albums Please Please Me and With the Beatles, plus the two singles She loves you and A Hard Day's Night.
  • 1974: A Collection Of Beatles Oldies[9], the first time East Germans could legally buy copies of Beatles singles from the Help! up until Revolver period put on this compliation, first East-German Beatles release in stereo. The back cover holds a slightly ideologically tinted short essay about how their song lyrics basically represented and incited the British working class with revolutionary fervor and helped young people deal with love, with a few short quotes from the lyrics translated to German.
    • 1974: A Collection Of Beatles Oldies[10], MC version
  • 1976: The Fantastic Pop Power[11], random compilation of 60s and 70s Western pop music, included Ain't she sweet
  • 1980: 1967-1970[12], basically the Blue Album with its own East-German cover
    • 1980: 1967-1970[13], MC version with original Western cover
  • 1980: Emerson, Lake & Palmer[14], this was an accidental pressing where the first side contained the according songs from the ELP album, but the second side was accidentally pressed with songs from the above 1967-1970 album
  • 1983: The Beatles[15], basically a slightly extended re-release of the 1966 compilation Big Beat with a different track order, now extended with the 6 songs from the above three 1964 and 1965 single releases. The back cover held a text with reminiscenses of their Hamburg days that read a bit like a Wikipedia article, with a few technical notes on the recording sessions with Kaempfert/Sheridan, calling them influenced by The Shadows, followed by similar notes on their EMI sessions for Please Please Me and With the Beatles.
So that's basically three official East-German compilations (Big Beat, A Collection of Beatles Oldies, and 1967-1970, plus a slightly extended 1983 re-release of Big Beat under different title), three singles, and one accidental pressing all in all. According to Mitteldeutsche Zeitung, they were hard to get at the time because of the deliberately low pressing runs for Western-Bloc music. After the fall of the wall, many East-German fans let go of their Amiga compilations for the original albums, but nowadays they're collector's items (even if they hardly cost more than 10 Euros). --46.93.158.170 (talk) 18:18, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Release dates[edit]

I have found a few sites that indicate Parlophone released "Komm, gib mir deine Hand" b/w "Sie liebt dich" in Australia on 25 June 1964, catalogued as A8117. This shows up on Joe Goddenn's Beatles Bible and on Discogs. I have not found this sourced in any print authorities however. Given that Discogs has pictures of the label, I'm sure it was released, but until we find something authoritative it will need to be left off the page.

Next, I've included a lengthy footnote regarding the date of release in West Germany. Nearly every source I've read — Walter Everett,[1] Barry Miles,[2] Kenneth Womack[3] and Margotin & Guesdon[4] (though Womack and M&G cite Everett) — say Odeon released it on 5 March 1964. This doesn't make much sense given that, according to Mark Lewisohn, the songs were not mixed in mono and stereo until 10 and 12 March, respectively.[5] John Winn simply says that after the songs were mixed they were "sent to West Germany for rush-release..."[6] The Beatles Bible gives an even more nonsensical release of 4 February, only six days after recording. On the official German charts, it indicates that both songs first entered on 1 April 1964, implying a release sometime in the second half of March. I can't narrow the range down any further than this (12 March – 1 April 1964).

I have been looking for better sources regarding both of these claims but have so far come up empty. I expect we may need to wait until Lewisohn comes out with volume 2 of The Beatles: All These Years (sometime around 2045). Tkbrett (✉) 17:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Australian release is now sourced.[7] Tkbrett (✉) 13:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Everett, Walter (2001). The Beatles As Musicians: The Quarry Men through Rubber Soul. Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press. p. 213. ISBN 978-0-19-514105-4. Retrieved 13 January 2021.
  2. ^ Miles, Barry (2007) [1998]. The Beatles: A Diary – An Intimate Day by Day History. London: Omnibus. p. 113. ISBN 978-1-847720-825.
  3. ^ Womack, Kenneth (2014). The Beatles Encyclopedia: Everything Fab Four (Unabridged ed.). Santa Barbara: Greenwood. pp. 512, 839. ISBN 978-0-31339-171-2.
  4. ^ Margotin, Philippe; Guesdon, Jean-Michel (2013). All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Beatles Release. New York: Black Dog & Leventhal. p. 74. ISBN 978-1579129521.
  5. ^ Lewisohn, Mark (1988). The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions. New York: Harmony. p. 42. ISBN 978-0-517-57066-1.
  6. ^ Winn, John C. (2008). The Beatles' Recorded Legacy: Volume 1. University of Michigan: Three Rivers Press. p. 118. ISBN 978-0307451576.
  7. ^ Jones, Jaesen (2012) [2011]. An Overview of Australian Beatles Records (Revised ed.). Canberra: Blue Star Print. pp. 48, 129. ISBN 978-0-9871048-3-0.

Comments[edit]

I can't help feeling this article relies way too much on direct quotations. It becomes something of a George Martin armchair recollection. (Yes, he was the Parlophone boss and their connection with EMI worldwide, but he's not the artist.) Also, the amount of text relegated to notes – creating 16 notes in total – is quite a surprise, given the article's not at all long. It's especially noticeable under Background, where three consecutive sentences carry notes/asides. JG66 (talk) 15:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. I removed two George Martin quotations that I now see don't really add much. I can definitely be a little overzealous with my notes; I moved several of them into the body of the text and removed others. Thank you for the smaller cosmetic fixes. I've made sure to familiarize myself with MOS:DASH so I can avoid those issues in the future. Tkbrett (✉) 15:42, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Komm, gib mir deine Hand / Sie liebt dich/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 06:54, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Oldest songs GAN that is eligible for review, so appropriate for me to take this on! --K. Peake 06:54, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead[edit]

  • WP:OVERLINK of West Germany under A-side in the infobox
  • Remove only before "Hand" and "dich"
  • The release info should come directly after the liberties sentence, plus move the German language versions info to being part of the opening sentence instead
  • The release sentence should begin with "The German versions were released..." then following the rest, plus add the US info here instead
  • Done. I began the sentence as "Odeon Records released the German version..." to avoid passive voicing. Let me know if this looks O.K. Tkbrett (✉) 13:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The commercial performance info is out of order; this should be directly after the recording info of the third para for both countries
  • Remove introductions on Odeon Records, George Martin and Brian Epstein because them being introduced in the body is sufficient
  • "the German market the Beatles" → "the German market, the Beatles" to fix the sentence flow
  • Remove pipe on UK, plus shouldn't this be the United Kingdom since you wrote the United States?
  • "For "Komm, gib mir deine Hand" they" → "For "Komm, gib mir deine Hand", they"
  • "Their subsequent practice" → "The band's subsequent practice"
  • Remove wikilink on English Language
  • Remove wikilink on Europe

Background[edit]

  • Retitle to Background and development
  • Remove wikilink on the Beatles
  • "On 25 January," → "On 25 January 1964,"
  • "number one in America" → "number one in the United States"
  • Merge the second para with the above one per the short length
  • "conceived of the Beatles" → "conceived the Beatles"
  • Remove pipe on B-side
  • "John Winn translates" → "John C. Winn translates" per the source
  • "says that "The German rewrite" → "says, "The German rewrite"

Recording[edit]

  • "The tape travelled with Martin and Smith" → "The tape was brought by Martin and Smith during their travels"
  • Merge the second para with the above one per my earlier comment
  • [8] should solely be after the last proper sentence of the new para because it is the sole ref
  • "and the group's only outside the UK." → "and the band's only one outside of the United Kingdom." per my earlier comment
  • Merge the fourth para with the above one
  • Img looks good apart from the missing full-stop, but it is fine to have this be at the start of the merged para
  • "was the first song recorded" specify what this means, i.e it being the first song of the two or something else
  • Now, "was the first of three songs recorded that day." Tkbrett (✉) 13:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Martin produced, supported" → "Martin produced it, being supported"
  • "from four- to" is the dash supposed to be here? If so and it's a different format of the one at the end of the sentence, change to four-track
  • "as well as Harrison's" → "as well as George Harrison's" with the wikilink
  • "Lennon's rhythm guitar" → "John Lennon's rhythm guitar" with the wikilink
  • "on "She Loves You" he" → "on "She Loves You", he"
  • Merge the penultimate para with the above one, especially in the context of the two days later part
  • "on 31 January." → "on 31 January 1964."
  • "record four takes" either add "of" or "for" after this, depending on which the source mentions
  • now, "to record four takes of 'Can't Buy Me Love'". Tkbrett (✉) 13:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the joined edit of" → "the combined edit of"
  • "On 12 March," → "Two days after the initial mix,"
  • "and the US." → "and the United States." per MOS:US

Release[edit]

  • Retitle to Release and impact
  • Quote box looks good!
  • "in West Germany" → "across West Germany"
  • Remove obvious wikilink on Australia
  • "in June 1964," → "during June 1964,"
  • Merge the second para with the above one per my earlier comment
  • Shouldn't you write record label instead of label?
  • "to that song." → "to the song."
  • "They released "Sie liebt dich" b/w "I'll Get You" in America" → "Swan released "Sie liebt dich" b/w "I'll Get You" in the US"
  • "on the North American album" → "on the Beatles' North American album"
  • "for new Beatle material." → "for new Beatles material."
  • Move the part about them never recording foreign versions again to the end of the section, as this specifically deals with impact
  • Is the ellipsis in Martin's quote part of the original or is it added in; if the latter, surround by [] to make this clear
  • It is not part of the original. Added square brackets. Tkbrett (✉) 13:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove wikilink on English language
  • "this release eliminates a" → "the release eliminates a"
  • Remove "the album" intro to Something New since this is already known
  • "It remained unavailable" → "The song remained unavailable"
  • "on the 1988 compilation" → "for the 1988 compilation"
  • Is the word "respectively" needed at the end of the sentence when there is no difference indicated for the releases other than the titles?

Personnel[edit]

  • Shouldn't this be titled credits and personnel?
  • Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel

Charts[edit]

  • Remove the sub section because that is redundant when all positions are weekly; mention in the table captions that they are for weekly chart performance of the songs

References[edit]

  • Retitle to Notes and references

Notes[edit]

  • John Winn says → John C. Winn says
  • Remove wikilink on India
  • Remove pipes on George Harrison and John Lennon as well as the added surnames using [], as the full names were used before this quote

Citations[edit]

  • Cite ThoughtCo as publisher instead for ref 16 and pipe to Dotdash, plus add an archive URL

Sources[edit]

  • WP:OVERLINK of The Beatles on the second source

Final comments and verdict[edit]

  •  On hold until all of the issues are fixed, but feel free to reach out if you have any questions! --K. Peake 10:50, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the taking the time to go through this so thoroughly. I only have one FA under my belt and its in something completely different, so I appreciate your help here. I have gone through and made most of the changes you suggested. See my comments above. Cheers. Tkbrett (✉) 13:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tkbrett ✓ Pass now, you did misunderstand my comment about the chart table so I fixed that for you and I also edited the lead after the last para stood out as too short. --K. Peake 18:11, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Komm,_gib_mir_deine_Hand_/_Sie_liebt_dich&oldid=1208018735"