Talk:Kelly Catlin

A news item involving Kelly Catlin was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 11 March 2019.

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News of Death[edit]

Several anon. editors have added info relating to the subject's death, but have not provided a reliable source to confirm this. Please note that blogs and Facebook do not count as reliable sources. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 15:35, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Died by suicide". Jdm26 (talk) 23:23, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://twitter.com/Tennesseine/status/1104939674215333888 2001:569:7859:2300:C8AD:411C:4573:DA02 (talk) 03:12, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is now confirmed src : Reuters--DBig Xrayᗙ 09:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hometown paper's story includes quotes from sister as to Catlin's shaky physical and mental condition after she suffered a concussion. – Sca (talk) 14:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS: See also San Jose story. Sca (talk) 17:09, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For those who cannot access the twincities, here is the full article on archive.org--DBig Xrayᗙ 04:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here's recent coverage on her life from the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/29/kelly-catlin-death-cyclist/? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.22.110.62 (talk) 20:24, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - do you have anything that's not behind a paywall? Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User:Lugnuts I have already provided the archiveurl for folks who dont have access accross the paywall. You can read the above WaPo article here [1]. You may need to disable your adblocks (if any), let me know if the link did not work for you. regards. --DBig Xrayᗙ 12:44, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:48, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Died by suicide vs committed suicide[edit]

There is no need to change "committed suicide" to a euphemism. This is common language and there is nothing wrong with it. Natureium (talk) 16:22, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, readers shouldn't be shocked by "committed suicide," but perhaps we should bear in mind that Catlin is survived by a (fraternal triplet) sister and brother with whom she was very close, and by cycling friends. Under the circumstances, I suggest the slightly softer but unequivocal "took her own life." – Sca (talk) 16:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The article you are linking to includes "Catlin’s brother, Colin, wrote Friday on Facebook that 'my sister Kelly committed suicide last night.'[2] Bus stop (talk) 17:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say "suicide" was wrong.
Article really should be expanded. – Sca (talk) 17:09, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But the article uses the phrase "committed suicide". Bus stop (talk) 17:13, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Several sources use the phrase "committed suicide" and there was no reason to remove that from the article. Natureium (talk) 17:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There may be a difference between national versions of English. I've absorbed the concern that "committed" places the focus on the illegality of the act; therefore I find "died by suicide" preferable on NPOV grounds. Calling it a euphemism, however, is just plain wrong. "Took her own life" is circumlocutory, in my view, but equally not a euphemism. However, whatever wording we use right there, we don't need to state "in California" in effect twice, both at the start and when we come to mention that it was on the Stanford campus, I also don't think we need to attribute to a family member (though others may disagree), and I made several improvements to the referencing in that paragraph, including naming the Washington Post reference, which I had reused at earlier points, distinguishing between a website/publication (italicized) and a publisher (not italicized) by changing which citation template whatchamacallit was used, adding the actual date for a reference rather than merely saying when the editor who added it had consulted it ... and so I find Natureium's repeated wholesale reverts misguided. Please learn to just switch out the small group of words to which you have an objection. Or at least to preview. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed ad nauseum and consensus has been repeatedly that "committed suicide" is accepted terminology. "Died by suicide" is redundant for the reasons I outlined here. Praxidicae (talk) 17:52, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Natureium has changed the phrase to state "Catlin died on March 8, 2019 at her university residence in California. According to her sister, she committed suicide months after suffering a concussion.". This is acceptable to me and I hope to everyone else too. Please do not change this any further without discussion. --DBig Xrayᗙ 18:00, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that, I hadn't realized there was such extensive discussion with consensus, my bad. valereee (talk) 19:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2019[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Degree listed from UM is incorrect, there should be a degree in mathematics listed, see https://twitter.com/kelly_catlin/status/996219155014598658. 98.192.3.68 (talk) 10:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done DBig Xrayᗙ 10:13, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

consussion[edit]

Can we explain the connection to the concussion? I understand that some people object to avoiding 'committed suicide' (although to be fair all the sources do actually say 'died by') but does anyone object to "had suffered a concussion months earlier and "had not been the same mentally since" or similar? Just saying she committed suicide and had suffered a concussion doesn't seem to make the connection the original quote was ~~implicitly~~ explicitly making. valereee (talk) 18:36, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

that sounds like a bit of WP:SYNTH unless there are several sources which definitively connect the two. Praxidicae (talk) 18:38, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Praxidicae, is it really synth to report accurately what the sister said? She connected them. I don't have a strong opinion, but if we're mentioning the sister connected the two, why wouldn't we mention how she was connecting them? valereee (talk) 19:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One person's personal observation being asserted as "She had a concussion which caused her to commit suicide" is absolutely synth. Praxidicae (talk) 19:21, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Praxidicae, then maybe don't mention it at all? We're turning something that was explicitly said into something implicit? Idk...just seems llike we aren't reporting accurately. valereee (talk) 19:23, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why it's current phrasing is an issue. But adding any more detail about the connection between the concussion and suicide without actual sources aside from one report of her family saying so would be synthesis. That's what I'm saying. Praxidicae (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Praxidicae, okay, like I said, no strong opinion. I clicked to the source to see why the two had been mentioned in the same sentence, I guess other readers can too. valereee (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

City[edit]

For the record, the city of "Saint Paul" is normally written "St. Paul."
– Sca (talk) 02:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC) – (Minnesota native)[reply]

Source to expand the article[edit]

https://web.archive.org/web/20190311171219/https://www.twincities.com/2019/03/10/minnesota-native-and-olympic-cyclist-kelly-catlin-found-dead-in-her-home-at-age-23/

This source added by Sca is a good one to further expand the article. --DBig Xrayᗙ 08:56, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

'Previous attempt'[edit]

DBigXray, the German Wiki article says Catlin attempted suicide in January and since then had been in the care of a doctor or doctors: "(Schon im Januar 2019 hatte sie versucht, Suizid zu begehen und war seitdem in ärztlicher Behandlung gewesen.)." This statement is footnoted to a Washington Post story that I haven't been able to read due to their paywall: Cindy Boren: U.S. Olympic cycling medalist Kelly Catlin dies at 23. In: The Washington Post. 11. März 2019, abgerufen am 11. März 2019. – Sca (talk) 13:27, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sca, WaPo article is on wayback machine, please read it there.--DBig Xrayᗙ 13:38, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link doesn't work for me. Not familiar with said "machine." Sca (talk) 13:42, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sca I fixed the link, it should work now. Wayback machine is the name of the archiving site. --DBig Xrayᗙ 13:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Works now, thanks. Sca (talk) 14:09, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

march 7 or 8[edit]

Article says she died on March 7 but many news articles say March 8, which one is it?. 78.108.56.35 (talk) 15:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

March 7, is what the university reported. Several reliable sources mentioned it as 7. Some media sources have got it wrong as 8--DBig Xrayᗙ 15:38, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]