Talk:Jimmy Hoffa/Archive 1

Hoover a Republican?

'A number of Republicans such as FBI director J. Edgar Hoover are believed to have helped Hoffa.

One group he definitely had close ties to was the Republican party. Presidents Kennedy and Johnson both put pressure on Hoffa, attempting to investigate his activities and disrupt his ever-growing union. The Kennedys especially were sure that Hoffa had pocketed a great deal of union money. The AFL-CIO also disliked Hoffa and aided the Democrats against him. A number of Republicans such as FBI director J. Edgar Hoover are believed to have helped Hoffa.

• 1.Was Hoover a Republican?
• 2.Also I didn't think the Republicans were supposed to be friends to the unions?I know Robert Kennedy had investigate Hoffa in 1950s, and was no friend of his, but that doesn't automatically mean Hoffa and the Republicans were tight either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smith03 (talk • contribs) 22:02, 2 August 2003 Smith03

• 3.Nixon (a Republican) pardoned Hoffa. Ford (a Republican) pardoned Dave Beck, Hoffa's predecessor.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.32.63.133 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 19 May 2006

Throughout the 1960s & 1970s, the Teamsters were remarkable as being practically the only union that supported the Republican party. I assume they had closer links to the moderate/liberal wing of the time: e.g. Rockefeller, Nixon. -- llywrch 18:33, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

DNA and Sheeran

"Twenty-six years later in March 2001, a DNA match was made between Hoffa and hair found in the back of a police car suspected, but could not prove, was involved in his disappearance.

Last year, a biography of Teamsters official Frank Sheeran, who died in 2003, says Sheeran claimed responsibility." [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.8 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 2 June 2005

Mythbusters

maybe good to know - mythbusters actually searched the giants stadium with no luck, so i guess thats a place where he isnt at anyway.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.215.72.195 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 10 August 2005

• Yes, because Mythbusters is a legally mandated and heavily supervised police organization and not, say, a bunch of guys with no responsiblity or peer review whatsoever who do everything they do solely for publicity and money. --NellieBly (talk) 22:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture?

This needs a picture. Anyone know where we can find one? -RomeW 10:54, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Try this. I don't seem to know how to paste the photo onto this page. http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/jimmy_hoffa/1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by User talk:64.122.22.418:47 (talk • contribs) 19 April 2006

Locked

Someone vandalized the page. Someone else reverted it. Then SlimVirgin reverted to the vandalized version. Then went in, fixed the vandalism and protected the page. Can we get this thing unprotected, please? It seems pretty bizarre to protect something due to vandalism when you're the one vandalizing it. 204.69.40.7 19:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Locals and Grammar

Changes by Theshibboleth affect not grammar, but meaning here.

In industries such as garment delivery, organized crime took over locals, then used their power to strike to bring an entire industry either under the Mafia's control or at least vulnerable to blackmail.

Means something different than

In industries such as garment delivery, organized crime took over. Locals then used their power to strike to bring an entire industry either under the Mafia's control or at least vulnerable to blackmail.

-Ogdred 03:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

You're right Ogdred, it definately means something different. Can the actual meaning be used? We can not keep having these grammer errors! TammiMagee 11:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Books

Details of the Ice Man book are now available and should be added to the article. Carlo, Philip. The Ice Man: Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer. St. Martin's Press (July 1, 2006) ISBN 0312349289 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.187.67 (talk • contribs) 04:19, 18 May 2006

Here is Lynda Milito's book, which should also be added to the references. Milito, Lynda and Reg Potterton. Mafia Wife : My Story of Love, Murder, and Madness. HarperCollins. 1st ed (May 13, 2003)ISBN: 0066212618 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.187.67 (talk • contribs) 04:26, 18 May 2006

Disappeared, not died

The infobox on this page says "Died: 30 July, 1975 (disappeared)". That's misleading; he disappeared and is not known to have died, on that day or any other. The infobox should say "Disappeared: 30 July, 1975". But I don't know how to modify the template to accept a "disappeared" field. - Brian Kendig 23:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC) Actually, he was legally declared dead in 1982. Either case, the 1975 death date is wrong.--Art8641 (talk) 00:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Birthplace

The birthplace of Jimmy Hoffa is given in the sidetab as Brazil, Indiana, but then the writings about him begin with him being born in Queens, New York. Which one is true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.172.27.2 (talk • contribs) 20:21, 21 June 2006

I don't know, let's check Wikipedia. Oh, wait... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosopher2king (talk • contribs) 00:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

By:Wikipedia.com?

What does the "By:Wikipedia.com" in section title "Biography By:Wikipedia.com" mean? Isn't it wikipedia.org anyway? 85.18.108.94 09:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

LATEST INFORMATION DELETED???

Why was the newsest information updated on 12-04-06 deleted? The information on that site was part of the on going investigation that Charles Brandt has been involved with for the past 6 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.60.199 (talk • contribs) 14:28, 5 December 2006

Bias

"..he was released when Republican President Richard Nixon..."

I'm tired of the left leaning bias rampant in Wikipedia articles.

What is the purpose of stating the Presidents party affiliation?

Would you write Democratic President Jimmy Carter?

If someone wanted to know if he was a Republican, Democrat, or a Bull-Moose, they would navigate to the entry on Nixon. Either way the correct title for the Commander and Chief of the United States of America is 'President ' followed by the name of said President. EX. President Richard Nixon, President Jimmy Carter

The leftwing slant jumps out later in the same sentence..

"..President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence to time served..(allegations exist that an illegal $300,000 payment made this possible)."

First, is there any proof of these "allegations?" Where's the citation for this slanderous filth? That statement would not appear in any legitimate (nonpartisan) encyclopedia without one.

This is of course why the President was introduced as "Republican President Richard Nixon," to imply that all Republicans are represented by the acts of a single member of the party. Of course, the reader would have no way of knowing if the statement had any validity or if the author was the one making the allegations since the statement is not cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salzano1 (talk • contribs) 17:54, 21 December 2006 Salzano1

This left wing encyclopedia allows anyone to edit any article, in most cases. I've edited those two items as I agree that it was weirdly stated and unreferenced. In the future, feel free to edit such items yourself to maintain neutral tone. Syrthiss 18:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think noting his part affiliation shows any kind of liberal bias, since a few paragraphs earlier, it is said that " the AFL-CIO also disliked Hoffa and aided the Democrats in their investigations." In that instance, the entry was talking about the Kennedy Administration, not all Democrats.

Don't care either way, but I do care that it's uniform.

Also, there doesn't need to be proof of "allegations." By definition, alegations don't aren't based on proof: "an assertion made with little or no proof," according to dictionary.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.57.23 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 4 May 2007

Trivia Section

This article just plain sucks. I like hip-hop and video games too, but Wikipedia is not a collection of random trivia. There is no relevant information in the 'Hoffa in Pop Culture' section; I'm going to delete the whole section tomorrow if no one gives me an explanation of why I shouldn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.156.90 (talk • contribs) 07:07, 19 March 2007

1) The least you can do is sign your comments with name and date, if you want people to take you seriously.

2) Jimmy Hoffa has obviously become an iconic figure in American popular culture, clearly witnessed by the extensive list of examples. Although I agree the list might be a little bit too extensive, I definitely think it serves a clear purpose. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michael riber jorgensen (talk • contribs) 22:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Did they find him? Newly added information removed

I recently saw on his page some information that stated that in Feb of 2007 his body was found in a concrete slab behind the home of Ruben Gutierrez in Miami, FL. You can see this if you look at the history of this page and look at three changes made by someone with the ip 68.103.86.57 on March 23, the first one mentions this, the second does not but then his third edit does it again but after that someone else comes in and takes it away again.

Does anybody know anything about this? Is it true? I've searched the net for any news regarding this but I haven't found any sources yet that confirms it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doofuz (talk • contribs) 21:49, 23 March 2007

No, it's not true. All information gathered from the Frank Sheeran account has pointed directly to cremation being the means of disposing of Hoffa's body. He was killed in Detroit, and disposed of only 2 minutes from the house where he was murdered, in a cremation oven at a cemetery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.213.95.246 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 26 March 2007

Proof? Michael riber jorgensen 22:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Answer, It's still being investigated by Charles Brandt and his associate in Detroit.

EDITED : According to recent publications and expert testimony (Charles Brandt), it is believed that Jimmy Hoffa's body was cremated in a Mafia-owned funeral home. (This line was edited because the information Charlie Brandt gave to KLAS TV was regarding a cemetery with cremation ovens, not a funeral home. The Funeral home assisted by possibly giving the paperwork needed for cremation.)--Spectre7277 22:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

non neutral POV

"This was of great concern to the United States bourgeoisie as a strike involving all transport systems would be devastating for the national economy.

For all the benefits that Hoffa and some Teamsters delivered for over-the-road drivers, other Teamsters locals did little more than sign sweetheart deals that made union officers rich and left workers poor."

These sentences seem to have a clear, but easily fixed, communist slant to them, the first in particular, which speaks of bourgeoisie fears caused by worker organization. It might help to rephrase as :

"This was a potential source of disaster as a strike involving all transport systems would be devastating for the national economy.

For all the benefits that Hoffa and some Teamsters delivered for over-the-road drivers, other Teamsters locals did little more than sign sweetheart deals that made union officers rich and left the rank and file poor." Mercmisfire 04:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Does anyone know his ethnicity? East European I believe. John celona 13:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The name Hoffa itself is of English origin: http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/hoffa-family-crest.htm Name in itself, however, does not determine actual ethnicity. User: Lon Wood 11:01 13 June 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.55.6418:00, 13 June 2007 (talk • contribs)

I looked on ancestry.com and Hoffa's line goes back to Pennsylvania with names like Jacob and Johannes. Obviously German, although I couldn't find the immigrant ancestor. Maybe someone else who has time can dig a little deeper. Also, it's unclear who all intermarried with the German Hoffas in Jimmy's family tree. I didn't have time to trace all that. But the family's origin is clearly German. St. Jimmy 18:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

This is easy, since he actually told it under oath!

Testimony in front of the Hoffman Committee (followed the Kefauver Committee):

Mr. Hoffman: Don't talk so much. ... Just one question. In view of the statement that was made by another witness, are you an Italian?

Mr. Hoffa: I am not. I am Irish and Dutch.

Mr. Hoffman: All right.

Mr. Hoffa: You don't want the truth. You would rather have it look like a syndicate.

Mr. Hoffman: Don't worry.

Mr. Hoffa: I don't worry.

(Arthur A. Sloane, "Hoffa," MIT Press paperback edition, 1992, p. 44)

From Sloane, p.3: "Hoffa's father, John Cleveland Hoffa, was a coal driller of Pennsylvania Dutch lineage..." who married "a quiet, attractive eighteen-year-old Irish-American neighbor, Viola 'Ola' Riddle." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doprendek (talk • contribs) 05:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed bit of vandalism

This bit of vandalism appeared in the first paragraph: "Hoffa moved to Lake Orion, Michigan to play baseball as a New York Yankee. He developed a reputation as a tough street fighter who always stayed late after practice. Hoffa soon got the coach's daughter pregnant and was fired from his baseball job but later hired as a union organizer for Local 299 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). "

I'm new here. Where do I report this? Or just change it and otherwise ignore?Doprendek (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I have put the article back to its pre vandalism state. Spectre7277 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spectre7277 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 12 May 2008

Empirecontact if you need any information about the investigation, feel free to email me at [email protected] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spectre7277 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 12 May 2008

Today's edits

I reverted a series of edits made my Spectre7277. There are a few problems with them. First, he reverted to a version that went into exquisite detail about the day-by-day events of a two-year-old search that produced nothing. Second, he added a number of external links that fail WP:EL. Third, and most troublingly, he re-adds www.spectrepublishing.com/Jimmy_Hoffa_Mystery_Solved.html [Hoffa Mystery Solved this link] to the website of an outfit called Spectre Publishing that promotes a book about Hoffa. Not coincidentally, Spectre disclosed his connection with Spectre Publishing when he made this edit to this talk page disclosing his e-mail address. Obviously, this is about as hamfisted an attempt to spam Wikipedia as most editors have ever seen and won't be tolerated. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 02:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Stephen, I worked on this case. The information is for the public. I do not make one dime from this information. Please respect my work and put the information back. --Spectre7277 (talk) 03:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

From Wikipedia....Dont be a fanatic 1. Respect common standards - If the Wikipedia view of how articles should be presented differs from one's own perception of the subject, then it's important to recognize that Wikipedia has standards applicable to the community and all its members. 2. Don't over-guard articles - Even if a subject is close to one's heart, or an article has been fostered lovingly, remember that it is still a communal article and communal shared collaboration. Even if it takes the article in a direction that you don't agree with, so long as policies are being followed, allow communal ownership to supersede personal emotional involvement. 3. Don't be too certain - Too much certainty can lead to assumptions of bad faith, or to inability to listen to others properly, both sources of conflict. 4. Don't be zealous to the point other goals are lost - Intense caring for Wikipedia's policies and ways can at times lead to such excess of zeal as to be a problem in its own right. Such editors often do not understand why others criticize them, because in their own eyes they are "just doing what's right for Wikipedia". 5. Don't slip into bad behavior - Fanaticism often leads towards personal attacks and breaches of civility, if "the truth" becomes "what one wants to hear", rather than "what's best for the project and those one is working with." 6. Don't marginalize others - If you dismiss other points of view, or attempt to marginalize the people who hold them, your position may actually be the marginal one. Instead, ask sincere questions to see where the differences are and which editors are on solid ground.--Spectre7277 (talk) 03:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Fitzsimmons

This article is very critical of Fitzsimmons, in essence painting him as a Mafia crony and failure in the leadership of the Teamsters. This is not the position shown in the Wikipedia article about Fitzsimmons, which paints him as a relatively successful union leader. Can someone do some research and bring these two articles into agreement? Tiger Khan (talk) 03:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Mafia Whitewash

This article completely whitewashes Hoffa's many contacts with the mob, including his associations with Santo Trafficante, Jr. and Carlos Marcello. The article largely ignores his run-ins with the law, and paints him as a victim of selective law enforcement by Attorney General Robert Kennedy. How about mentioning the union corruption charges and the jury tampering? All of this is well documented. See, for example, Mob Lawyer (1994), Frank Ragano and Selwyn Raab, Charles Scribner's Sons, ISBN 0-684-19568-2. That's not to say that everything written adversely about Hoffa is true, but in the interests of balance the subjects should be discussed in a comprehensive encyclopedia entry. Otherwise, it simply looks like it was written by a friend. Vrio —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC).

link to Spectre Publishing

I've removed this link from the article:

• [htlp:///www.spectrepublishing.com/Jimmy_Hoffa_Mystery_Solved.html Hoffa Mystery Solved]

It seems to fail many of the rules on WP:ELNO. For instance, reliable sources, and exists primarily to sell products. While the WP:RS standard doesn't necessarily have to be followed for an external link to exist, it's hard to say this site includes neutral and accurate material. Having said that, I removed it from the article a second time with a 'vandalism' revert. That was an accident. If anyone thinks the Spectre link should be on the page, please discuss it here. tedder (talk) 01:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Reasons to add to wiki

Yes, that website page has an area for selling books, but from what Ive seen, the area for selling books is below the Hoffa article. The article that is on the website has a reliable source. The Detroit Free Press article links itself to Spectre Publishing and names Jeff Hansen as the guy who investigated a new lead in the Hoffa case. The information is accurate or the Detroit Free Press and KLAS TV in Las Vegas or the E Channel would not have given it the time of day. Jeff Hansen, from what I have observed is obviously Specte7277. When he put the link on the site, it was against wiki policy. I agree wholeheartedly. But, I believe the information in that article is relevant and worthy of placement in wiki.

For two reasons:

It's the latest information gathered about the case.

The information adds a coda to the claims of Frank Sheeran, the man who allegedly killed Hoffa. --Nugglesmom (talk) 02:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Fails Wikipedias specific requirements of our External Links policy, Verifiability Policy and Reliable Source guidelines.--Hu12 (talk) 20:37, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Still appears to fail our Verifiability Policy and Reliable Source guidelines. However I invite others to explore the fact checking by this user whos only posts to Wikipedia include linking to Spectre Publishing , and posting unsuported fringe theories. Additionaly seems these are being added under multiple accounts;

• Spectre7277 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)
• Nugglesmom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)
  --Hu12 (talk) 18:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It's pure spam that fails several policies. Keep it out. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 15:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Detroit Free Press Article link Deleted?

On July 8th 2007, the Detroit Free Press published a story about a former Detroit Police Officer named Jeff Hansen who claimed that he discovered cremation ovens at the Grand Lawn Cemetery, which is only a few blocks away from the house in Detroit where Frank Sheeran claimed to have killed Jimmy Hoffa.*[2]

Why was the article link and the July 8th 2007 paragraph deleted? It was verified, was written by myself, not anyone associated with spectre publishing. This is over editing at its worst. --Nugglesmom (talk) 23:14, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Apologies to Wikipedia

First I'd like to thank nugglesmom for attempting to help add pertinent information to the Hoffa page.

My apologies are to the wiki editors for my placing of information on the Hoffa page that I was directly involved with. Obviously, my name Specte7277 was not anonymous enough like other folks user names that have articles on this information website. That being said, the information I did gather was broadcast on KLAS TV Las Vegas with George Knapp ,the E Channel's 20 most Shocking Unsolved Crimes and published in the Detroit Free Press. It is not a fringe theory, as user Hu12 says. I believe that wikipedia is a great information tool and I have been using it as a reference for nearly four years now. The Jimmy Hoffa page as well as the Frank Sheeran and Russell Bufalino pages should have links to Charles Brandts website and my own, because they have the latest news regarding the investigation into Mr. Hoffa's disappearance. The Hoffa page on my website Spectre Publishing has been dramatically changed, taking away the large links to my novel Warpath and has gone back to the way it was before. There are links on it for other areas of the website and small links to Amazon.com. If it will help to have the information that is verifiable placed back on to the Hoffa page, I will remove any links that wiki editors do not approve of. The information and pictures are on that website for a reason, and believe me, having links to my book or Charles Brandt's book has not made any kind of difference with sales. I will not edit the Hoffa, Bufalino or Frank Sheeran page again. I do hope that one of the editors who have taken away the edits made regarding the Detroit Free Press article will read my apology and revert the edits. I believe the public has a right to know and read about the latest information regarding Mr. Hoffa's disappearance. I give permission for anything on my website to be used as a reference by any editor who wants to add information to the Jimmy Hoffa, Frank Sheeran or Russell Bufalino pages.

Sincerely, Jeff Hansen --Spectre7277 (talk) 00:49, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Who is Nuggles?

What's going on? I made a couple of copy-edits to this article and now I can't keep Nuggle's mom off my talk page? Do I need to complain about this, or will it go away eventually, like eczema? Does anyone have Nuggle's dad's #? Love, SB —Preceding undated comment was added at 03:56, 27 January 2009 (UTC). Sorry - that really was me. Forgot my tildes. Sugarbat (talk) 05:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Jimmy Hoffa. In his own Write.

Mr Hoffa was interviewed once on British T.V. he was asked; 'what do you think of Robert Kennedy'. Mr Hoffa; 'he never worked he does not know what it is to work for a living. His father was a Bootlegger, nothing else'. What do you say to people who say you misuse Union Funds?; 'they don't know what they are talking about, in America people expect Union Leaders to live in a certain way, like a leader'. Is it true you Bugged the home of Marilyn Monroe?; 'I bugged her home? no I never did any such thing. I heard a tape once, someone said it was her voice. She was saying such and such I don't recall'. If you have done no wrong why has Robert Kennedy pursued you so actively? 'To make a name for himself, nobody had ever heard of him before he took up after the Teamsters, he has used the Teamsters to get headline news'.Johnwrd (talk) 23:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

NEW INFO JUST RELEASED ABOUT HOFFA CASE

Does this count as pertinent info for the Jimmy Hoffa page? Since I can't add it in, maybe someone else would like to. --Spectre7277 (talk) 03:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/20911524/index.html

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/090914_hoffa_book

http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story/FBI-Continues-Mysterious-Dig-in-Detroit/Fo44poqS-UKCVXrJ6RYBLA.cspx

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-confirm-dig-search-jimmy-hoffa-body/Story?id=8583134&page=2

The ones that speculate that maybe the FBI's dig in Detroit is possibly a search for Hoffa aren't appropriate, as there's no verifiable facts involved. Some of the other links may be appropriate, but I'll leave it to others to review the best use of those links. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The dig in Detroit has nothing to do with Hoffa, that's just the Detroit media spin on it all. The links that talk about the cemetery, especially the Detroit Free Press Article linked below is the newest information in the case that was turned over to the FBI. Thanks for the quick response. --Spectre7277 (talk) 23:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/090914_hoffa_book

http://www.freep.com/article/20090914/NEWS06/909140312/1202/RSS

IS THIS WIKIWORTHY ENOUGH??? LATEST INFORMATION ABOUT HOFFA INVESTIGATION

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=9876538&referralPlaylistId=playlist --Spectre7277 (talk) 03:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Time is on their side

This page says "founded 1899"; this page, 1903. They can't both be right.... TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 10:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Complicated. If you read the other article it says that the Team Drivers International Union (TDIU) was formed by the AFL in 1898. (In those days, teamsters actually drove a team (of horses).) Then in 1901, a rival organization called the Teamsters National Union was formed. The new union applied for membership in the AFL, which they were granted on the condition that they merge with the TDIU. They did this in 1903 and called the merged union the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). So did the current union begin in 1903 as the merged union, or is it a successor organization to the original TDIU? Hard to say. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 06:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Rise to Power Section

"At the IBT convention in Los Angeles, he was selected by incoming president Dave Beck, successor to Daniel J. Tobin, who had been president since 1907." Horribly written sentence. Selected to what? 68.6.185.21 (talk) 08:03, 30 July 2010 (UTC)Captain Johnson

Precise time of disappearance

Hoffa disappeared at, or sometime after, 2:45 pm on July 30, 1975, from the parking lot of the Machus Red Fox Restaurant in Bloomfield Township, a suburb of Detroit. According to what he had told others, he believed he was to meet there with two Mafia leaders—Anthony Giacolone from Detroit, and Anthony Provenzano from Union City, New Jersey and New York City.

That doesn't read as clearly as I think it should. Did he actually attend the restaurant with the view to meeting these people, or did he just tell others he was going there? I'm assuming he was last seen (alive) at 2:45pm on that day in the parking lot. But that doesn't tell me if he went inside the restaurant and found Giacolone and Provenzano not there and then came out again; or never made it inside at all before disappearing. If 2:45 pm was the last time he was ever seen, what does it mean to say he disappeared some time after then? If that was the last time he was ever seen, that was the last time he was ever seen. Whatever we're trying to say, we should say it as simply as possible. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I Actually agree with him, Hoffa was seen getting into a car in the restaurant parking lot with several other men. Investigators are pretty sure that he never got out of the car alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.6.55 (talk) 19:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it's just my imagination, but I think I heard somewhere that he rang his wife from the restaurant (or nearby) asking if either mobster called in his absence. He probably assumed they were late for the meeting and called his residence to let him know. If that's the case, then he definitely did make it to the restaurant. It was probably shortly afterwards that he met his end (or his killers) in the car park of that restaurant. 86.45.135.69 (talk) 17:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I read the book "Hoffa", by Arthur A. Sloane, and provides more reliable information, that what I have normally read in an article on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.17.73 (talk) 13:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Cultural Significance?

why no mention of his disappearance on pop culture? probably the single most mentioned disappearance in movies/tv, much more so than amelia earhart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.156.53.139 (talk) 10:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

See the section entitled "Film and television". I think there was a pop culture section at one time, but everything else that was in it turned out to be unsourced and unsourcable trivial mentions of Hoffa in some film or TV show, which is what most pop culture sections end up being. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 19:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Which "Film and television" section would that be? The invisible one or the one that got disappeared? Should we start checking oil drums? Or should we just wait 4 more years and declare it dead?--92.36.134.180 (talk) 13:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Article lacks pertinent information. The book "I Heard You Paint Houses" by Charles Brandt should be included in the Further Reading section. Frank Sheeran, the man who confessed to killing Hoffa, is not mentioned once in the article. --Spectre7277 (talk) 14:53, 30 July 2011 (UTC) ^^ Please. Please include this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.154.208 (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The Earlier Edits About Recent Events Weren't Bad To Include At All

DNA tests confirmed a piece of Hoffa's hair was in O'Brien's 1975 Mercury Marquis Brougham and O'Brien denied that Hoffa ever took a ride in that car. Dan Moldea, who did research on the case and wrote about it, is not bad resource to include either. The fact Sheeren made a confession and that blood was found in the house were he alleged Hoffa was killed in is also quite logical to add too. It is no less logical to add than the detail in this article that police searched a farm for Hoffa's body in 2006 and found nothing.75.72.35.253 (talk) 13:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Good morning. The consensus has been that the material presented in the books by Spectre Publishing are original research and cannot be used in the article. Considering that Spectre aggressively attempted to promote their books by editing the page, and you geolocate to that part of the country, I would advise you to cease your edit warring or I will have to initiate a sockpuppet check. Regards, Syrthiss (talk) 13:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Not all of it is Spectre Publishing at all. Most of it is from Fox News. I am not affiliated with Spectre either. I'd never even heard of the group until I was doing research for a resource on Hoffa, The consensus policy doesn't have to be unanimous either. It involves group compromising. I can just erase the Spectre part.75.72.35.253 (talk) 13:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, I've been looking for a way to put this that steers clear of WP:NPA and here's the best I can do. I don't believe you. And regardless of whether I believe you, this is just one of a myriad of theories of what happened to Hoffa that there's a clear consensus to omit. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 23:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Read the Fox News and Teamster articles for yourself and being so self-centered on this. There are no theories. Sheeran made a confession-which I never typed was proven-, DNA was tested on the hair and blood was found. Please respect the consensus and NPOV policies and stop this nonsense. It's also pigheaded to assume I'm with Spectre just because I used a source from their website, which I had never heard of until I was looking for resource on this article75.72.35.253 (talk) 22:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Please review WP:BRD. Trying to edit-war that material into the article won't get you what you want. You are ignoring policies, not me. Stop and try to use the policies for dispute resolution to gain consensus if you want the material in the article. Bear in mind that there are a hundred cockamamie theories on what happened to Hoffa. We can't include them all. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 08:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

This Frank Sheeran business came up today again (31 July 2016) in http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/30/eric-shawn-reports-how-frank-sheeran-killed-jimmy-hoffa.html from fox news. Not sure if that would change anything. What do you think? 21:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.253.54 (talk)

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What did he (allegedly) do wrong?

Knowing little about Hoffa and reading this article, I am wishing someone could add more information about his alleged and convicted criminal involvement. There are gaps that keep the entire article from making much sense. We are only only told of the attempt to bribe a juror and fraud (misuse of union money). Later we are told he had associates in the Mafia. Why did the union and Hoffa associate with the Mafia? What was the mutual benefit? Why was Attorney General Kennedy pursuing Hoffa for so long? Did Hoffa attempt to bribe the juror on his fraud case or on another case? What started the fraud case, and was that the only other crime he was tried for? Why would the Mafia want to kill him?Markdf10825 (talk) 15:05, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this is a major weakness in this article, almost significant enough to merit it being demoted from "B" Class. Based on what I heard/remember from the time, the Teamsters were entangled with organized crime due to the nature of the industry: teamsters, warehousemen, & truck drivers not only were originally unskilled & uneducated labor, but presented countless opportunities for crime rings for smuggling, theft, & related property crimes -- much as longshoremen faced. In order to gain control of the union, Hoffa made a lot of compromises & agreements with unsavory types. The union became so corrupt that the AFL-CIO expelled them in 1957, & Teamsters were the pariah in the labor movement for a generation afterwards. The question of just how much of this corruption was due to Hoffa (as opposed to Beck or Tobin before him) is a good one & should at least be raised, if not discussed, in this article. The article on the Teamsters union itself handles this matter much better, & should be studied for further ideas. -- llywrch (talk) 17:01, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Death

The Richard Kuklinski page says that Hoffa was murdered by Kuklinski with a hunting knife. The body was hid in a 55 gallon drum. The drum was set on fire by Kuklinski and then buried in a junkyard. The drum was later dug up by Kuklinski and put in a car's trunk. The car was then shipped to Japan to be melted down. Heymister14 (talk) 20:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)heymister14