Talk:J. J. Watt

Edit request on 18 October 2012

Change his Wonderlic test score to 31 Sources:

• http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/04/14/combine-workout-leaders-wonderlic-test-2
• http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/41184

BrytonK (talk) 03:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC) BrytonK

Done Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

2012 Season

"Because of his knack for batting balls down at the line of scrimmage, he was nicknamed "J.J. Swatt" by Monday Night Football commentator and former NFL head coach Jon Gruden.[10]"

This is incorrect. According to this link, Gruden dubbed Watt "JJ Swat" during the Monday night game on October 8th. That nickname was in use before Gruden's comment. On September 12th NFL writer John McClain wrote the following piece:

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/09/j-j-swat-suits-watt-just-fine/

I believe that the line mentioned above should be removed from this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.38.99.226 (talk) 01:25, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

2013 season

Why is there no information about his 2013 season? Can someone add this section? Natg 19 (talk) 22:46, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

SWOQB?

Looking at the season stats section at the bottom of 'Professional Career' - What the hell does SWOQB mean? It's not a part of the source table on ESPN, and I can't find any other usage of this phrase in relation to football at all. And yet, he apparently recorded a SWOQB this year all the same. The only page I can find referencing this term is this exact page and nowhere else. Can we either find out what that means or remove it from the table? 217.44.116.178 (talk) 09:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Some IP editor added "Selfies with opposing quarter backs" as a stat line and it was removed and they added it back in as SWOQB. —  dainomite   17:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

What other athletes are adding?

While expanding this specific athlete's page, I have noticed that there are more and more athletes popping up with their statistics from the current season. I plan on expanding on JJ Watt's current season with The Houston Texans. Is there anything else anyone has noticed that would be beneficial for me to add? I do not mind putting in the work to expand this page in any way that I can. Thank you in advance for any feedback.( Chrissy333 (talk) 21:32, 6 November 2015 (UTC) ) ( Chrissy333 (talk) 21:31, 6 November 2015 (UTC) ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissy333 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Anything anyone would like to see added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissy333 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I have come up with a list of eight sources that I found to be most beneficial when adding to JJ's charity section of 2015. Here is he list I came up with:

Resources:

References

( Chrissy333 (talk) 21:32, 6 November 2015 (UTC) ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissy333 (talk • contribs) 04:25, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

After researching these articles, I will use that information to build a section to add to his charity work. Introduction: To begin, I will build off of the 2014 year of charity work. From there, I will introduce his charity softball game of 2015 and it's unbelievable turn out. Paragraph: Here, I will break down everything he has done in 2015 leading up to his charity game and how it has such a huge impact on the community. By discussing the numbers, turn out, sponsors, and everything that goes into the event, it will be beneficial for readers to have a better understanding of everything he does on and off of the field. Conclusion: I will discuss why this is important to the Houston area and all the children that benefit every single day from his work. ( Chrissy333 (talk) 21:31, 6 November 2015 (UTC) ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissy333 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

It seems like you have a lot of really great information to contribute to this page, Chrissy! I recall seeing that J.J. Watt has been doing a lot of publicity things lately along with his charity work such as commercials. I would be interested in hearing more about this because I think it does a lot in preserving his current star image. Jaylinclevenger (talk) 23:11, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Looking at your sources, make sure you use only the facts from them. The piece from JJ Watt's foundation could have instances of bias to create a more positive image of him. Just be cautious of what you use from different sources. Other than this, I love this variety of sources and how you plan on organizing this article. Nickmccune12 (talk) 04:20, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you for the feedback! ( Chrissy333 (talk) 17:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC) )

I think adding the stats on his page weekly is a great idea and is very beneficial to the page however, I would not count that as a meaningful addition to the page. I took a look at all your sources they look reliable and constructive to his page. I also noticed his personal life section was a little smaller than the rest, I'd like to hear more about his brothers who also play football and his family life. Be careful about being biased with your additions as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshewuh2 (talk • contribs) 20:21, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Good Start Chrissy! You are covering a lot and agree with Jayline that during her off season he did a lot of charity work, you should look more into that and the publics reaction. Also, since I know you love him and the Texans so much, try to stay as unbiased as possible But it look like your on the right track Lauren mara (talk) 21:51, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! I agree, it might be hard but just facts! ( Chrissy333 (talk) 22:20, 8 November 2015 (UTC) )

I agree that adding to the public image portion makes it less bias. For example: How has the public reacted to his charity work, and what led to the start? Also I think since he is a successful athlete, he has probably won awards and maybe you could mention some of them? His while career is an accomplishment but maybe you could add a section that specifically focuses on it? I don't know much about football, and so from my perspective I would want it to be reader friendly for people like me :) Other than that great sources and good luck! Montse03 (talk) 06:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)Montse

Acting Career

Missing section for his filmography. He's been in 3 things: The League (as himself), the New Girl (as himself) and the film Bad Moms as "Coach Craig".

For reference: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4457043/?ref_=nv_sr_1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.84.87 (talk) 00:02, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2016

2016 season

Watt's 2016 season became short-lived as he played only three games with eight tackles, 1.5 sacks, and a fumble recovery. On September 29, he underwent back surgery again, and was officially ruled out for the rest of the season.

References

50.29.199.144 (talk) 12:55, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Done. Lizard (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 2 December 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED. (non-admin closure) Per WP:COMMONNAME, the title of this article should not have the space. The oppose rationales are mostly either that Wikipedia should use its own style or based on how other names are usually written. These arguments are not in accordance with policy. KSFT^C 17:52, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

---

J. J. Watt → J.J. Watt – MOS:INITIALS states "An initial is followed by a full stop (period) and a space unless an overwhelming majority of reliable sources do otherwise for that person." (My emphasis). It's abundantly clear just by looking at the reference section that nearly every source excludes a space between each J. This also includes NFL.com, ESPN, Pro-Football-Reference, and the Texans. Lizard (talk) 12:10, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support per nom, who makes a compelling case. Calidum ¤ 23:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. Inconsistency of this nature is common among web pages. The lead sentence of subject's article indicates, Justin James "J. J." Watt. No convincing reason is given, other than inconsistent listings in references, why an extremely rare, if not sole, exception to standard Wikipedia practice (see List of literary initials) should be made in this particular instance. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 00:02, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

If I may ask, where are the inconsistencies? Literally every reference listed in the article as well as every source given above are consistent in having no space between each J. Seems pretty compelling to me. Lizard (talk) 00:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support. The common rendering is definitely J.J. Watt (Also JJ Watt is more common than J. J. Watt) [1], [2], [3], etc. Zarcadia (talk) 07:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
• Opppose. By the rules of English orthography, there is a space between initials and abbreviations, unless it's forming an acronym. Watt's nickname is verbal ("jay jay"), how it's spelled isn't really fixed by that fact. That different people spell it in varying ways isn't in doubt, but neither is how initials are spelled out in the English language. For a comparison for names, consider how the author's name is printed in this book cover - there is no question that the correct spelling should be "S. M. Stirling" (and it is in his wikipedia article and on later book covers), but typesetters commonly dropped the space for his early books, like here and here. Tarl N. (discuss) 17:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Also note WP:TITLECHANGES, If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed. 5 ½ years for this article, open question whether that is "long time". Tarl N. (discuss) 01:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support move. The nominator's rationale is clear, and the overwhelming majority of sources do exclude the space. MOS:INITIALS says to exclude the space here.  ONR  (talk)  00:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Note: Announcement of this discussion appears at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Abbreviations, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people) —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 05:01, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Awful to parse with that space. Awful aesthetically. Tony (talk) 09:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Purely your opinion. I totally disagree. In fact, since I'm British, I would go with J J Watt, which is common British style. But our house style has always been spaces and full stops, so for consistency that's what we should go with in pretty much all articles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is purely stylistic. Some publications and websites use one house style, some use the other, some use another one altogether (e.g. spaces but no full stops). Our house style is as the article is currently titled. I see no benefit to Wikipedia in having a mishmash of different styles purely based on the number of mentions in publications and websites whose house style happens to be one or the other. And note that, as I've said above, my preference when writing myself would be for something completely different, so I'm not arguing from a WP:ILIKEIT point of view. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:21, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. We should follow our house style, and the evidence presented does not prove any conscious decision on anyone's part to style it the way it is styled in the sources mentioned. And for those who support the nom because they "don't like the spaces", if you want to change the house style, go and do it on the appropriate MOS pages through an RfC, not trying through an individual RM. Personally I think the spaces are right and proper, and it jars to see the version without.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:18, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Are you two aware that the MOS explicitly says use the space-less version in instances like this? Nobody here has argued that reliable sources style his name J. J. -- in fact the opposite has been shown to be the case and we should move the page per the MOS. The arguments against the move seem firmly grounded in WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Calidum ¤ 07:00, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Good chunk of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, based on the rules of our language. Words (and abbreviations) are separated by spaces. Spelling it without the space would be like saying so many people use apostrophe's <sic> incorrectly, we should do so too. There is ample precedent (acronyms, company names), where "IBM" and "FBI" are used instead of "I. B. M." and "F. B. I." (Note, not I.B.M. or F.B.I.) - but if you are going to take those as precedent (or CC Sabathia), the correct article name would be JJ Watt. Jamming two abbreviations together is simply poor spelling. Tarl N. (discuss) 03:12, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

So what this boils down to is that MOS:ABBR needs to be amended? Something like, "An initial is always followed by a period and a space unless the initials do not contain periods." Because I have yet to see a single example presented by anyone of this particular name being styled as "J. J." in a reliable source, much less anyone disproving the fact that an overwhelming majority of reliable sources style it as "J. J." Lizard (talk) 04:18, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

It's not about J. J. Watt - it's about how English is written. The rule that words are separated by spaces isn't really disputed. That people do stupid things isn't either, that doesn't mean we have to as well. Tarl N. (discuss) 04:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. I'd be open to self-published name arguments, but the Texans' site also lists A. J. Bouye, K. J. Dillon, C. J. Fiedorowicz and D. J. Reader without a space between initials as well, so I assume that this is just a style decision by the Texans. – wbm1058 (talk) 04:07, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

• Indeed, per his Twitter and his charity foundation, it appears he doesn't use spaces or periods at all. This style seems to be rare among independent sources, though. Lizard (talk) 04:30, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

If the proposal changes to either J J Watt or JJ Watt (which I notice are already redirects), I'd drop my opposition. The former is two separate words, the latter is an obvious acronym (given both letters are capitalized). For how someone spells their own nickname, the actual individual is probably a better authority than sports reporters. Tarl N. (discuss) 16:50, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

1) Wikipedia has a set of consistent guidelines. The space between initials is one of such guidelines. Consistency in the application of Wikipedia's guidelines is equally important — otherwise we would be faced with a set of randomly and/or arbitrarily selected names with spaced and un-spaced initials on the basis of stylistic inconsistencies in capitalization and spacing that have commonly appeared in the past decades, to say nothing of past centuries (for example, "is"/"was" in titles, instead of "Is"/"Was", per MOS:CT).

2) It is sufficient to glance at List of literary initials to imagine the result of various submissions that, for example, D. H. Lawrence usually appears on book covers as D.H. Lawrence or that T. S. Elliot is usually seen as T.S. Elliot or that W. H. Auden should be rendered as W.H. Auden, due to such forms appearing in various WP:RELIABLE SOURCES.

3) The sole "J. J. Watt" example presented at MOS:INITIALS is the relatively rare CC Sabathia — rare because the initials of the given names are unpunctuated. In a cursory search, not a single example of un-spaced punctuated initials can be found (not counting the punctuated lowercase entry for k.d. lang). If one or a handful of other entries is ultimately unearthed, it is almost certainly because these articles escaped notice, rather than as a result of a discussion and vote which confirmed them in such form. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

This seems like something you should bring up on the talk page of MOS:ABBR to request we adjust that guideline, seeing as the "unless an overwhelming majority of reliable sources do otherwise for that person" condition is clearly met on account of it being near unanimously rendered as J. J. Watt in reliable sources. If this article doesn't meet that criteria, I'm not sure what article ever would. Lizard (talk) 04:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

In response to If this article doesn't meet that criteria, I'm not sure what article ever would. this is exactly the point of having a house style. Instances where an individual explicitly names one style of spacing and punctuation as the one we must use, or where sources are consciously united on an issue of this nature, are incredibly rare. This is similar to the long-running debate at WP:JR. So far, I'm not sure there is one single case there in which inclusion of a comma is backed up by preference or consistency of sources, and the same goes for initialisms. Perhaps it's true that no article ever would meet the criteria, and if so that's a good thing, because we prefer our house style anyway.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:18, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

I've been made aware since creating this RM that the omission of a space between initials is common practice in media for not just Watt, but almost everyone, at least in the sports world (Google A. J. Green, for example). So my opinion on the matter has changed a bit. That being said, the MOS should be made more clear, or be written in such a way that clarifies why CC Sabathia can be an exception and cases like this cannot. Lizard (talk) 16:45, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

In the hope of higher participation, I had already done so, per above notice, "Note: Announcement of this discussion appears at…" Optimistically, we may arrive at some form of consensus. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 05:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Active to the Roster for the playoffs.

Where is the official announcement that JJ Watt is active for the Wild Card game? TheBigMan720 (talk) 21:55, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Field Yates has access to the transactions wire, he tweeted that the transaction is official. Texans will likely put it on their website within a couple hours. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:58, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay didn't realize that. TheBigMan720 (talk) 22:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2021

Defensive End for the Buffalo Bills 2603:7080:2143:8600:B521:38CA:190E:4C0B (talk) 17:43, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 19:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2021

98.102.77.34 (talk) 21:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC) JJ Watts number is 99

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 22:01, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion: Deduplicate info and move to appropriate sections

Some info within the Personal life section duplicates content from Early life section. Typically, duplication isn't needed because the page should stand as an entire, progressive article. Suggest that info about family, brothers, hockey, and school should be in Early life (combining citations as needed) to clean up the page. Then Personal life contains info about the person as an adult, and may relate to or expand on information from prior sections.

There may be others, but here are a few examples (sans citations):

Suggestion #1: Combine all the "hockey" within Early life: "Watt played ice hockey from age four until he was 13 years old, "primarily as a center and a goal scorer." He traveled as far as Canada and Germany for competitive tournaments. Watt also played football throughout his childhood and became passionate about the sport while he was in fifth grade. He gave up hockey to focus on football due to weekly scheduling conflicts, and due to the financial cost of the sport. ---AND THEN--- For Personal life, something like: "Because of his involvement with hockey as a child, Watt has joked that he "may or may not" use skating as part of his off-season training."

(Side note: Typo "offseason" on the page should be "off-season".)

Suggestion #2: Combine all birth-family info into Early life, eliminating NFL info that can be included later: "Watt was born in Pewaukee, Wisconsin to parents Connie, a building operations vice president, and John, a firefighter. Watt's younger brothers are Derek and Trent Jordan ("T.J.") Watt." ---<NEW PARAGRAPH>--- "Watt played ice hockey... " (use Suggestion #1 as edit from here..) ---AND THEN--- For Personal life, something like: "Both of J.J.'s younger brothers are players in the NFL; as of the 2022-23 season, fullback Derek and outside linebacker T.J. both play for the Pittsburgh Steelers." 70.162.40.89 (talk) 16:48, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

All Pro inaccuracy

All Pro count is off 2600:4040:254D:5B00:3069:2C2D:AD23:D719 (talk) 20:37, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia usually will show only Associated Press (AP) All-Pro teams in the infobox. If you start with PFWA, SN etc., you'll need a bigger box.

I believe J.J. Watt was selected AP first-team (5x) and AP second-team (2x). The two times for second-team were for different positions in the same year. Bringingthewood (talk) 00:15, 19 February 2023 (UTC)