Talk:Israelites (song)

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Untitled[edit]

I notice that "in April 1969" has been replaced with "by April 1969". I know I made the original proclamation, which was so long ago, I cannot remember my exact research. Please could someone clarify if I was mistaken with this, otherwise I feel that the way I wrote it would be more informative to the reader.
I am aware whilst making this comment, that the editor of the text has evidently researched the song, so I do not profess to know best on this matter.
SimonMayer 01:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]


With the benefit of hindsight, my alteration was presumptuous. However, I can not prove that the single was number one in all those countries, exactly within the month of April 1969. Possibly, "by" that date is more realistic ?! It appears that more consensual research is needed perhaps, my friend ?
Derek R Bullamore 23:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article says this was the first international hit by a Jamaican artist. That's clearly not true, since it wasn't even the first international hit for Dekker himself. And Millie's "My Boy Lollipop" comfortably predates Dekker's success anyway. --88.109.204.193 22:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Change it then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.206.100.179 (talk) 15:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


It would be a good idea to cite that NYTimes obit in the section about “Ob-la-di” since it gives a more accessible source for the claim that the “Desmond” in the song is a reference to Dekker (see the Wikipedia entry for Dekker himself).

Also phrases in the article contain flowery and subjective language more suited for PR copywriting. In fairness to the author, he does give references, but lifting the phrasing in the way that is done here amounts to blatant plagiarism:

“Lyrically paralleling ancient travails with the overwhelming toil of modern-day poverty, Dekker composed a timeless masterpiece that knew no boundaries.”

“But 1969 was the right time for reggae to make a breakthrough in the United Kingdom…”

“The Beatles, as always the trendsetters back then,…”

“So begins one of the most seminal songs ever released by a Jamaican artist…”

"The impact of 'The Israelites' can never be overstated." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.98.147.130 (talk) 21:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

“…where it soared into the Top Ten”


For an example of how to properly couch phrases like this, see the third sentence (the one beginning with "Tom Maginnis in Allmusic...") in the entry for Van Morrison's Wild Night (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Night):

38.98.147.130 (talk) 19:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

McCartney has stated that "Desmond" was just a common Jamaican name. I think it was in his autobio (Many Years From Now). Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First Reggae song to hit the top ten in the US[edit]

I don't have this book and therefore can't corroborate the information in it, but I don't think this is accurate. Just as an example, Johnny Nash - Hold Me Tight, was #5 in September of 1968. Israelites was #9 in May 1969. What's the definition of a reggae song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thendcomes (talk • contribs) 16:18, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed[edit]

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:3jftxxl0ldse. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Genre?[edit]

I see it described as ska here, and I've also seen it described as an early example of reggae. But it seems to me like "Israelites" is a really clear example of rocksteady, which is the phase of Jamaican music between ska and reggae. If nobody has any objections, I'm going to change the genre in the infobox to that. Peter G Werner (talk) 04:02, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article is not consistent, with the intro calling it reggae but a later section calling it ska. I know songs can cut across genres, but I do think the current article could be clearer on this. Peteinterpol (talk) 17:52, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would also say it's a rocksteady tune. But it was back in those days when the charts didn't have clear distinctions so that would be why it ended up on the UK Ska charts.

No, it's neither ska nor rock steady. This is an early example of reggae. Ska faded out in the latter half of 1966 in Jamaica and rock steady in the latter half of 1968. There were a few records that fell pretty squarely between rock steady and reggae in 1968 but Israelites isn't one of them - while it's quite slow for early reggae, the drums are definitely not playing rock steady. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freewheeling frankie (talk • contribs) 21:39, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lyrics[edit]

Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir,
So that every mouth can be fed.
Poor me, the Israelite.

Are you sure that's correct? (As in, is there a verifiable source that it can be taken from (which isn't a lyrics website)?) I could easily be mistaken, but I can't make out the 'Poor me, the Israelite'. Not with both 'me' and 'the'. I'm not entirely sure what it does say (I always believed it to be something like 'Ohhhh, the Israelite'), but I can't hear four words in that line, and 'me' and 'the' don't run together as a single word. --82.70.156.254 (talk) 21:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And indeed the citation shows the third line as being "Oh, oh, me Israelites", which sounds about right to me. I'm changing it accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.85.213 (talk) 13:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Compositional Details[edit]

Marcus Gray's Route 19: The Clash and The Making of London Calling (2009) London: Vintage Books ISBN 9780099524205 contains the following passage:

In that respect, it ['Death or Glory'] is similar to Desmond Dekker's 'The Israelites', a regular Clash cover during 1978 and 1979, which was inspired by a conversation about domestic strife Dekker happened to overhear one day in a London park.
Gray op. cit.[1] p313 (Ch.4:12)

Does anyone have any more details/corroboration of this story? Redpaul1 (talk) 09:13, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Marcus Gray, Route 19: The Clash and The Making of London Calling (2009) London: Vintage Books ISBN 9780099524205

Eating corn[edit]

Dekker was "eating corn", he says. I doubt that this was popcorn, more likely maize, or sweetcorn.Royalcourtier (talk) 08:33, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"Although few could understand all the lyrics...."[edit]

Presumably this sentence wasn't written by someone with Jamaican or other Caribbean heritage. We need to find a more objective way of expressing this. MFlet1 (talk) 23:09, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

British advert for vitalite[edit]

The song was adapted for the Vitalite spread, any details about that? 84.67.61.209 (talk) 23:02, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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